] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 1, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 14:59:17 -0400 From: David Levitan Subject: Ozzy Digest Jeremy: If you mean that Oz will become recreation, please tell me a better hierarchy to put it in (comp, humanities, misc, news, rec, sci, soc, and talk). All sites dealing with such stuff (including the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings by J.R.R. Tolkien, which has its own newsgroup), are in the rec.arts hierarchy, and I think that that would be the best place to put it. Jeremy and Dave H.: Thanks for mentioning it. I forgot to check the URL and gave the wrong ring name. I have corrected it and my signature has the URL. The HTML code on Oz Web Ring Pages does have the correct code and the problem does not affect the code. -- David Levitan Oz Enthusiast wizardofoz@iname.com Netscape Supporter Designer of the Wonderful Land of Oz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9075 Ring Master of the Oz Web Ring http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=ozsites;home ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 15:57:28 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-31-97 Dave L.: That's one shiny nickel! Also, I missed a few Digests on the way to college and so may have missed the beginning of the Digest vs newsgroup debate. Anyway, my opinion is that the Digest is good as it is, and another newsgroup would be good too. (E-mail me privately if I have it all wrong, please. I don't have access to anything mailed me before I came to school now, so if we went through this before, my apologies.) Bear: I'm not going to argue--we've had enough little mini-arguments for one Digest. Teaching Greek and Latin: Well, some Americans (and others) have mysteriously made their way to Oz; why couldn't some Greeks and Romans have done the same? In fact, one could even say that's how Oz was colonized by humans (not that I'm saying that's necessarily so, of course--I'm just suggesting a possibility). Maximum speed of a tornado on the ground?: That's one of our tornados, of course. A tornado originating in Oz? Who knows how fast it might go. David Hulan: Yes, I'd appreciate your opinion of Netscape e-mail or that of any other user thereof. (With comparison to Pegasus mail, if possible -- but if not possible,. just an impression thereof.) Toto: As the mailman will attest, he was a _real_ terrier! JOdel: You imply that an army of 27 is more competent than one of one? More organized, of course, but . . . (not that I have first-hand experience with one, of course, but from what I've heard . . .) Ozma's unreaction: To prove to the Nome King that all he does is futile anyway? You might all ask me whether "unreaction" is a real word. But of course it is! It's what happens when you watch a film of a chemist combining vinegar and baking soda in reverse. --Jeremy Steadman [WITHOUT KIEX!!!! :-) :-) ] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 14:01:12 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-31-97 Bear, My point (incomprehensible as it may have been) was that it is the government in one or more of its manifestations that inoculates children against polio (They got me three times, with the Salk vaccine and the Sabin vaccine in school and then the Army did it again to me. Never got polio, though). Have a nice weekend (belatedly) yourself, Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 16:05:02 -0500 From: Mike Denio Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-31-97 >Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 22:08:23 -0500 >From: "David G. Hulan" > >The gold shoes of the Sawhorse were probably attributable to the fact >that gold was the commonest and cheapest metal in Oz. It wouldn't last >terribly long, but it was easily replaced. Steel doesn't seem to be all >that readily available there. I had always assumed that Baum used the gold shows purely for effect, instead of any practical reason. You're right in that gold wouldn't last long enough to justify the time required to make the shoes. I suspect that even wooden shoes would perform better. Metals we use to strengthen gold (like copper) would make better shoes when used alone. The use of gold has little practical function (other than ornamentation and as a conductor). >Nickel is a metal that doesn't tarnish or corrode easily, but then so is >tin. I'm not sure what the advantage of nickel-plating tin would be. >Nickel is much harder than tin, but a plating wouldn't have that much >effect. As for luster, I think the two materials are fairly comparable - >not nearly as bright as silver or aluminum, or gold if you're not >looking for the blue-green end of the spectrum, or even chromium, but >brighter than iron or steel or zinc. Actually, I've found nickel plating to be equal to superior to chrome. It has a slightly darker color, but this gives it a much richer look. It is mildly susceptible to tarnish when contaminated (like a fingerprint), but so is chrome. The nickel plated item I have has a plating which is thicker than chrome plate (I don't know if this is generally the case), and thus it has a greater tendency to crack. Still, I prefer nickel plating to chrome for its color. On the other hand, silver is horribly susceptible to tarnish, and requires constant maintenance. Aluminum looks nice after A LOT of polishing, but it dulls if not sealed (hence the clear paint on aluminum cans). Gold of course would be a good choice if the color were suitable. >Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 13:28:15 -0400 (EDT) >From: JOdel@aol.com > >Ozma's reaction to the threat of invasion is so bizarre that I find it >difficult to swallow. Clearly this is supposed to demonstrate to the reader >that good will always triumph... I agree. The biggest problem with many of the later Oz books (_EC_, _Patchwork_, and especially the Thompson titles) is that the characters no longer have to think in order to solve their problems. Either Glinda shows up and snaps her magic fingers, or some other solution just falls into their collective laps, and everyone heads off to the palace to party. Someone brought up the potential for an ethical and philosophical discussion of the Bunburry chapter, but I feel that Ozma stealing the minds of all her would-be invaders should raise greater ethical questions. Then again, it is just a story. _Emerald City_ is one of my favorite all-around Oz books. I really enjoy Baum's sarcasm, which is in full gear here, but fades quickly in his later work. I'm also fascinated by the extent to which socialism had integrated itself into Baum's writing - obviously the fad of the period. Wasn't it only forty years or so between _Emerald City_ and _Animal Farm_? I'm constantly amazed at how people can have such strong definitive perceptions of the ideal society which invariably look ridiculous to following generations. We are all truly products of our times. On the other hand, other aspects of human behaviour (like the Flutterbudgets) seem to be timeless. Good book. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 16:24:52 -0500 From: "David G. Hulan" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-31-97 Robin: I think the term "Ainur" is from one of the later books, but in the appendices to LotR the Wizards are called Istari and it's stated that they're not mortal humans. David L.: Nickel when polished is shiny, but its reflectivity isn't nearly as high as silver (around 98% when freshly polished, though it tarnishes fast) or aluminum (90% when polished, and it doesn't tarnish fast). IIRC the reflectivity of nickel is around 50-60%. (If anybody really wants to know I can look it up, but I'd have to go downstairs and it doesn't seem worth the bother unless someone is really curious.) Craig (and others who mentioned the point): It seems to me that there's every bit as much reason for Ozites to study Greek and Latin as for Americans. In either case the reason for studying the languages is partly to have access to the literature of those cultures in the original, and partly to improve one's understanding of English, which owes a great deal of its vocabulary to them. Since Ozish is the same as English, the latter reason would apply in Oz as much as in America or Britain. And the great literature of Rome and Greece would be just as great in Oz as here as well. It's not as if Latin and Greek are studied here to enable one to speak with ancient Romans and Greeks if we happen to meet up with them. (True that there are modern speakers of a form of Greek, and the RC church still uses a form of Latin, but neither American schools of Baum's day nor, I'm sure, Prof. Woggle-bug's academy generally taught Modern Greek or Church Latin. They taught the classical languages.) Of course, these days very few Americans study Latin, and fewer Greek, but at the time EC was written most who went to secondary school studied Latin, and most who went to college studied Greek as well. Bear: >Sigh - Where did you get this strange idea? This country was founded on >the basis that we wanted government to leave us alone and worry about a >very retricted set of things. Our early flag was a snake with the motto >"Don't tread on me." It is sad how far we have drifted from that idea. If >you don't think it is costing you anything ask anyone over forty. And if you don't think there are any benefits from it, you weren't trying to breathe in Los Angeles in 1963. Joyce: Your comments on EC seem bang-on to me. Neill seemed to have a hard time making up his mind what breed of terrier Toto was. In _Wizard_ Denslow makes him a Scottie or Cairn or some such - one of the fuzzy square kind, anyhow. Neill starts out making him a Boston terrier in _Road_, and continues that in _EC_, but in _PG_ he's something else - not a breed I'm familiar with, if there is such a breed - and by _Lost Princess_ he seems to be more or less of a mutt. It seems bizarre to me that when Ozma found out about the Nome King's planned invasion she wouldn't at least have alerted Glinda to what was going on. Granted, Glinda probably knew about it anyhow from the Great Book of Records (though IIRC that book is first mentioned in _Tik-Tok_; it's just possible that it didn't exist at the time of _EC_), but in that case why didn't _she_ come to the EC to counsel with Ozma, even if she weren't called on? Whether she's protector of Oz or protector of Ozma, it would seem to be in her job description. (Of course, maybe she was brewing up some powerful magic that she'd have used if the Scarecrow hadn't had his inspiration. But if so, she never mentioned it. OTOH, maybe that was to keep morale high in the EC; if you know that someone is going to save you even if your plans go awry, then you have less incentive to work hard to save yourself. Good conservative doctrine there, right, Bear?) Jeremy: I agree that Baum was no fool, but I don't really think Roquat and his armies were much of a prediction of the World Wars. More likely a reflection of the historical wars like the Crimean, Napoleonic, Seven Years', Spanish Succession, Grand Alliance, and Thirty Years', just to go back a couple of centuries from the time he wrote. All of those were cases where multiple nations with differing goals banded together to fight on the same side of a war, sometimes against a single opponent and sometimes against a hostile alliance. (And I don't assert that the wars I list are the only ones of that kind in that period, though I think they were the most important ones.) In the context of the original remark, "N'est-ce pas?" would be correct. David L.: Eureka made it back to Oz somehow by the time of _Patchwork Girl_ (and had become pink in the process). The only time she has any lines in a later book, though, is in _Magic_, where she has a few. Otherwise she's only mentioned in the FF. She appears in quite a few of the non-FF books, though; she has an excellent role in the IWOC's _Ozmapolitan_, and also in BEOO's _Colorful Kitten_. And I have a book that I hope will appear from BoW when I finish some revisions that's entirely from her POV and explains a lot of things. Dave: The book version of _Cluny Brown_ is by my wife's favorite author (or at least favorite non-mystery, non-fantasy author), Margery Sharp. (She's also the author of the "Miss Bianca" books, but Marcia likes her straight adult novels better.) I read one of her books (_The Nutmeg Tree_) once and enjoyed it , but haven't followed up with others. I figure if I ever run out of things to read (hah!) I have this collection of about 40 books that I expect to enjoy and haven't touched yet, sitting across the room from me. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 20:31:29 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-22-97 David Hulan wrote: >(Farmer has done the same thing with Tarzan >and Doc Savage and possibly other fictional "universes".) Although Verne did not create universes, in the modern sense, Farmer wrote "The Other Log of Phileas Fogg", in which it is revealed that the _real_ reason for the 80-day journey was to foil the plans of the wicked alien known to humanity as Captain Nemo. >John K.'s definitions of the various forms of speculative fiction are >John K.'s, and should not be taken as Received Enlightenment. Pick >another knowledgeable SF fan and you'll get a slightly different >version. In particular, I don't know too many other people who'd define >"Sci-Fi" as he does; for most people I know, it's just a rather *eh* >synonym for Science Fiction, and not a way of categorizing bad SF. They are not _my_ definitions, but common practice, at least on the Internet. I freely admit I have never been involved in absolute fandom, outside of my IWOC and Offical-Babylon-5-Fanclub memberships, but the definitions I gave were those I have observed in common use in recent years; they are not my own (except for the actual wording). In particular, the use of "sci-fi" to signify rubbishy imitation SF is insisted upon by Harlan Ellison (although he allows an exception, perforce, in the case of the soi-dissant "Sci-Fi Channel"), and I, for one, do not care to challenge the authority of Harlan the Great and Terrible. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:32:28 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-31-97 Jeremy: >Roquat and his army: A direct prediction of the World Wars . . . Baum was no fool.< Jeremy: "Is is time we went into the world and brought sorrow and dismay to its people. Too long have we remained by ourselves upon this mountain top, for while we are thus secluded many nations have grown happy and prosperous, and the chief joy of the race of Phanfasms is to destroy happiness. So I think it is lucky that this messenger from the Nomes arrived among us just now, to remind us that the opportunity has come for us to make trouble. We will use King Roquat's tunnel to conquer the Land of Oz. Then we ewill destroy the Whimsies, the Growleywogs and the Nomes, and afterward go out to ravage and annoy and grieve the whole world." The First and Foremost of the Phanfasms Because many agree the world went mad, or died, in 1914, I agree with you--the First and Foremost's words do seem creepily prophetic, especially since "Emerald City of Oz" was copyrighted in 1910. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:33:10 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-24-97 David Hulan: There's one other way Glinda could possibly get a fairyhood--from a fairy-turned-bad. Theoretically, perhaps Ak or a fairy queen has the power to "defrock" a bad fairy and give their fairyhood to someone else if they so choose. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:14:52 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-31-97 David: I've seen paperback copies of _Glass Cat_ at Borders. Are there still hardcover copies available? What is the list price, and where can I order one? Global warming: I'm sure the climate is constant in Oz, but it's definitely getting warmer here. That is the consensus of most scientists who study climate around the world. There also is a high degree of probability that it's caused by increasing concentrations of CO2 and other "greenhouse gases" that have been emitted since the beginning of the industrial revolution. What we don't know is exactly what the effect of the change will be -- melting polar caps, coastal flooding, tropical storms of increasing severity, cropland turned to desert, waves of extinctions -- we just don't know. Most scientists agree that whatever happens, it won't be good, and we should take corrective actions to reduce CO2 emissions, primarily through reductions in the burning of fossil fuels. 'Nuf said. More on EC: I wonder what it was like to read this book when it first came out. When it was first read to me at about the age of 6 or 7, I knew not to believe Baum's claim that there would be no more communication with Oz b/c I had seen the other titles, but I imagine there were some pretty upset kids out there. I guess I haven't been reading the Digest as well as I should -- I notice that the Greek & Latin issue had already been raised. It still seems awfully strange though. -- Craig P.S. - Less than three hours before Labor Day, and Terry hasn't gone into labor yet. We are anxiously awaiting this new person who is going to play such a major part in our lives. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:31:37 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-31-97 Tyler & David: ""I cannot understand why you should wish to leave this beautiful country and go back to the dry, gray place you call Kansas." "That is because you have no brains," answered the girl. "No matter how dreary and gray our homes are, we people of flesh and blood would rather live there than in any other country, be it ever so beautiful. There is no place like home." Quote from "The Wizard of Oz." Of course, as you said, perhaps later Dorothy realizes that Uncle Henry and Aunt Em are the main attractions Kansas holds for her, but here she waxes sentimental and homesick for Kansas. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 23:57:59 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Robin - IIRC he wasn't "done in" but was not around to be a fourth for bridge anymore. David - Any communication system that is highly directional is going to operate at a relatively high frequency. That just about guarantees that it will be operating line of sight. That cuts down the possible "Baum-Oz" range. If you want to increase the beamwidth or make it omni that makes it interceptable over a wide area. Likewise if you want to use sky waves. Are you imagining Glinda is using some type of spread spectrum modulation? Maybe Hedy Lamarr tipped her off. :) David - >There has definitely been an increase in the average temperature of the earth over the past couple of decades. Whether this is because of "greenhouse effect" or some other cause is debatable, but not that it's happening. Now David, please provide a source for this "definite increase." James Hansen of NASA Goddard, who pretty much started the whole global-warming scare, admits his study of land areas, where the effects of global warming would be most severe, revealed that 1995 was about 0.02 degrees celsius cooler than 1990. ( Do you have newer data than that reported in 1996?) There are a bunch of people, with questionable motivation, who are pushing this idea. Give us facts. Does anyone remember the Ehrlich's and their "Population Bomb?" According to them we should all be packed onto earth like sardines now. They are still out their spouting the same trash. I admit the commute around here is a bit congested but really. And, I still think Oz is now smothered with chickens. :) By the way, I didn't know you were a "Limbaugh fan." JOdel - I hope you feel better soon. Labor Day Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 00:56:28 -0500 From: "Warren H. Baldwin" Subject: Ozzy Digest Query Re the recent discussion on aging in Oz: someone quoted Glinda as saying in one of the Thompson stories that one might choose whether or not to age on their birthday (loosely stated). But on a wordsearch of all the Thompson books I could not find the word "birthday" or "birthdays" in that context in any of them. Have I missed it? Was it maybe in a forward or afterword instead of the main text? Was the commentator mistaken? Now, we can't have Glinda misquoted! :-) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 09:03:41 -0600 From: Richard_Tuerk@tamu-commerce.edu (Richard Tuerk) Subject: _The Emerald City of Oz_ On 29 Aug. David Hulen wrote: >I don't know - I think that if the point had been to have the rather >idle journey of Dorothy and company through Oz punctuated by the >suspense of seeing the Nome King's plot working its way to fruition, >there should be some mention of said plot after they'd left the Fuddles. >The whole business of the zebra and the crab, Utensia (my personal >favorite bit of their travels), Bunbury, Bunnybury, Flutterbudget >Center, Rigmarole Town, and everything in between is uninterrupted by >any adumbration of what Roquat is up to. If Baum was trying for suspense >in the Hitchcockian sense, I don't think he did a very good job of it. I think this assesment is basically accurate. IN this book, Baum really doesn't seem to have been too interested in making the two plots work together, except that both provide him with an opportunity to presenting to his readers a travelog through parts of Oz and of some neighboring kingdoms. He wanted to be entertaining and exciting, but he does not seem to have been concerned with having the tour of Oz contribute to the suspense. Perhaps he thought the suspense surrounding the Nomes' invasion plans so great that he wanted to provide his young readers with a rest, an opportunity to calm down before the next episode involving the Nomes. Rich Tuerk ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 15:23:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Perryman Subject: Oz Its Garrett I'm finally back from my vacation in New York and in Marthas Vinyard.While on Martha's Vinyard I found that a library there had 29 Oz books. Dave: Send me the digests from August 21 - August 26. My machine was mad and killed those digests. Everyone:Is anyone interested in Trot or Betsy Garrett ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 01 Sep 97 15:12:07 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things OZMA EX MACHINA: Mike D. wrote: >I agree. The biggest problem with many of the later Oz books (_EC_, >_Patchwork_, and especially the Thompson titles) is that the characters no >longer have to think in order to solve their problems. Either Glinda shows >up and snaps her magic fingers, or some other solution just falls into >their collective laps, and everyone heads off to the palace to party. This of course is the problem in the Oz books that led to Tyler's "Generic Oz Story"... _Patchwork_, the best I think of the post-_EC_ books, would of course not have had this problem if only the butterfly had been blue. In my _Locasta_, all the magic in Oz is neutralized by the villians, so a "quick fix" is not possible. And in _That Ozzy Feeling_ the Magic Belt "runs down", forcing Ozma to use her own wits, which as it turns out are substantial. GLOBAL WARMING: As you all know, I try to stay out of the non-Ozzy political discussions here on the Digest... However the environment is one area I have trouble ignoring; but instead of giving a lengthy speech I'll simply ask this: If there's absolutely no foundation whatsoever for global warming, then why are the auto companies becoming so keen on developing electric cars? -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 2 - 4, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 09:00:45 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-31-97 > From: Bob Spark > A bit earlier I read and remarked here on Baum's "The Flying Girl" > and "The Flying Girl and Her Chum", both of which I thoroughly > disliked. In these stories he has featherheaded females (and fatuous, > pompous males) counterpoised against the heroine and her chum, both of > whom are level-headed and capable. I felt that these books were shallow > and one-dimensional besides being poorly plotted. Maybe it's unfair of > me to compare them to his Oz books, but I couldn't help doing so. > It is not the portrayal of women that bothers me in Baum's "serious" works, after all, the women are usually the most intelligent and resourceful characters in the books. What is more disturbing is the incredible coincidences upon which the resolution of so many of his plots depend. Often a long lost document shows up at the last minute and clears up the plot. The worst case may be in MAY LOUISE: -----------------------------SPOILER FOR MARY LOUISE Mary Louise's father had been accused of giving secret documents to the Germans during WWI (Shades of the Dreyfus affair!). Inside one of the books she purchases from a bookseller is a secret "For Your Eyes Only" letter by the German Ambassador in which her father is demonstrated to have innocent. ____END OF SPOILER > From: "David G. Hulan" > > Nickel is a metal that doesn't tarnish or corrode easily, but then so is > tin. I'm not sure what the advantage of nickel-plating tin would be. > Nickel is much harder than tin, but a plating wouldn't have that much > effect. Nickel plating was done to inhibit corrosion. The Tim Woodman was very liable to rust (something very unusual for the non-ferrous metal tin. Volkov made more sense when he changed him into the Iron Woodman. Did "tin cans" in the 1890s rust? JOdel > Baum appears to have had a clear understanding > of both chickens and dogs, at any rate. I'm less convinced that he really > knew and understood cats. If he had, he might not have simply given them > speech, and made them sound concieted. Cats aren't, particularly. Being > predators, they seem convinced that they cannot afford to lose face, but they > seem no more concieted than most other non-canines. Baum's cats show aloofness and a lack of "willingness to please" that is typical of cats in general. They are not social animals, but each maintains its own territory. The cat's habit of playing with its prey rather than taking a quick kill has long been known as a feline trait. Eureka's behavior at her trial is very catlike. She is surprised that anyone would be offended by her actions. The Glass Cat is also feline in hiding her(?) true feelings when in MAGIC she slowly walks away from the endangered Trot and Cap'n Bill, but dashes away as soon as she is out of sight. I think Baum knew cats. There is the story of how he held one of his sons outside of a window to show him how it felt when he dropped a cat. One of the "Queen Visitors" stories concerns a young boy who throws things at an alley cat, and the visitors from Oz turn him into an alley cat for one night to see what it is like. Also one of the valleys in Merryland is the Valley of Cats. > ====================================================================== > Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 14:38:34 -0500 (EST) > From: Jeremy Steadman > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-29-97 > From: David Levitan > > Hi, > What happened to Eureka after Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz? > Thanks You havwe touched on one of the great Oz mysteries. Several books have been written on that very question. She eventually becomes a permanent resident of Oz even though there is no canonical account of her return. After her return she is always Pink or Purple, hever white. March Laumer has the Shaggy Man make a special trip to Kansas for the purpose of bringing Dorothy's pet back in the notorious THE CARELESS KANGAROO OF OZ. Chris Dulabone wrote THE COLORFUL KITTEN OF OZ. > > AT THE MOVIES: > I remember someone asking about Miss Gulch's bicycle and whether it would be > anachronistic for 1899 (when the HACC says _WizOz_ actually occured) -- I > watched _Adventure in Baltimore_, which takes place in 1905, and in one scene > Shirley Temple and John Agar are seen riding modern-looking bicycles...Of > course this doesn't prove that *they* aren't anachronistic, but since they > (unlike MGM with _WizOz_) were striving to recreate a particular period, > one would hope that they did their homework. > > -- Dave > My point was that there was nothing in the MGM film to suggest that the events of the film were not contemporary to 1939, while RTO is clearly period. Baum certainly intended EC to be his last Oz book, and therefore went out of his way to give the readers a greater feeling for the nature of the country than he had previously done. Fot that reason, the tour de OZ that is given to Uncle Henry and Aunt Em is also intended for the readership. Baum had a strong sense of Whimsy, and here gave it free rein (even to the extent of having a race of Whimsies). In many ways the Oz chapters of EC are more like THE MAGICAL MONARCH OF MO than anything else in Baum's series. I agree with David that Utensia was among my favorite chapters of the books; it is the punniest passage in the entire canon. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 09:57:29 -0500 From: Mike Denio Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-01-97 At 04:01 PM 9/1/97 -0700, Dave L. Hardenbrook wrote: >GLOBAL WARMING: >If there's absolutely no foundation whatsoever for >global warming, then why are the auto companies becoming so keen on >developing electric cars? Tax breaks and public image. Of course it all boils down to $$$. What else would motivate a large corporation? ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 10:10:01 -0500 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest I don't think the Kansas sequences in the MGM film are intended to take place in 1939. There's no evidence of gasoline-powered farm equipment, and the women's dresses are ankle-length or lower. The treaded rubber tire that is hanging from a tree near the incubator looks as if it came from a very early motor car. As far as the incubator itself is concerned, it looks fairly primitive, and incubators had been around since at least the early 19th century. Moreover, Miss Gulch's bicycle could easily be from the period around 1900. I have a copy of some old sheet music (E.T. Paull's "New York and Coney Island Cycle March Two-Step", 1896) with a glorious full-color cover illustration that depicts at least twenty-three cyclists on bicycles that look just like Miss Gulch's. The filmmakers may not have been trying to create a historically correct turn-of-the-century Kansas farm, but they seemed to have in mind a generalized and nostalgic image of the American rural past. Some comments on EC: This book is especially noteworthy, I think, in that it provides the basic model for many of the Thompson books: the Irate Beginning Chapter (some monarch or other exploding with rage), the dual plot lines, the succession of episodes depicting one quaint little kingdom after another I agree with David H. that the Bunnybury episode doesn't have much in common with _Alice in Wonderland_ except for the white rabbits, but EC as a whole comes closer to Lewis Carroll than Baum's other books in its biting satire of the misbehavior of adults. How many of us have known people who fall to pieces as a form of defensive behavior, like the Fuddles? Or people--adults--who resort to infantalism when asked to be responsible, like the Bunny King? (I love the way he first appears, weeping and lying on his back kicking his legs in the air like a baby!) The prolixity of the inhabitants of Rigmarole Town and the paranoia of the Flutterbudgets are further very familiar examples of adults behaving badly. For that matter, I think the inclusion of Greek and Latin in the curriculum of Professor Wogglebug's college is not necessarily out of reverence for the classical tradition, particularly since these languages are acquired very expeditiously by swallowing a pill. Baum was undoubtedly satirizing the pedagogy of foreign-language instruction at the turn of the century, which typically involved heavy doses of grammar (memorizing grammatical tables) and laboriously translating uplifting passages from the ancient texts. Like the memorization and recitation of low-grade inspirational verse ("The Boy Stood on the Burning Deck," "The Charge of the Light Brigade"), this kind of rote learning was essentially a brain-dead activity, and Baum was quite right in suggesting that it might as well have been accomplished by taking a pill for all the good it did in teaching people how to think, or how to feel. Incidentally: Bunbury has *got* to be an allusion to _The Importance of Being Earnest_. "[The wheelbarrow is] made of nabiscos with a zuzu wheel": Does anyone know what a zuzu wheel was? And if "nabisco" was a common noun, what did it mean? A generic square cracker? Joyce is undoubtedly correct in saying that Ozma's eerie passivity in accepting the attack of Roquat's assembled forces is one of the most problematic aspects of this book. Can anyone imagine Tip acting like this? And are we to believe that a ruler who is so clueless about defending herself spends her days helping other people resolve their quarrels? The only answer I can think of here is that Baum was sacrificing Ozma's character in order to justify his decision to discontinue the Oz series. By making Ozma seem so helpless and defenseless against outside aggression, he underscored the need to make Oz invisible and out of reach forever. I also agree with Mike Denio that there are some serious ethical problems raised in the way Ozma and the others take care of the invading forces. Admittedly these are very scary enemies--the Phanfasms in particular could have been conceived by Stephen King--but the Water of Oblivion calls to mind the practice of neutralizing aggressive behavior by frontal lobotomies. I was out of town when the discussion of dictionaries was going on and have nothing to add at this point except to say that I thought Robin's eloquent remarks were simply wonderful. --Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 10:13:10 +0000 From: "David G. Hulan" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-01-97 Jeremy: I like Netscape E-mail better than AOL's, though that's not saying a whole lot. I haven't had any problem making it do what I want it to, but then I'm not very demanding, either. I'm probably going to try Eudora Light one of these days, when I get around to downloading it; friends tell me it's excellent, and it's free. You can use it with any ISP, I think, though maybe not with the ones that are also content-providers like AOL and CompuServe. I haven't tried Pegasus, but a friend who used to use it says Eudora Light is much easier to use, though not quite as powerful. Eudora Pro is supposed to be even better, but it does cost $50 or so. I don't think Joyce was implying that an army of 27 (at least, the Oz army of 27) was any more competent than an army of one. And neither would have been of any use against the Nome King's invasion. It's just that Ozma seemed to change from an aggressive type who "invaded" the Nome King's dominions in OZMA to one who wouldn't even fight in self-defense in EC. Mike D.: I was referring only to relative reflectivity when I said chrome is brighter than nickel, not to which I'd rather have on an article I owned. Less than 30 years between _Emerald City_ and _Animal Farm_, IIRC. I'm pretty sure the latter was published in 1939. Anybody have a copy they could check? Melody: >There's one other way Glinda could possibly get a fairyhood--from a >fairy-turned-bad. Theoretically, perhaps Ak or a fairy queen has the power >to "defrock" a bad fairy and give their fairyhood to someone else if they >so choose. This assumes a couple of facts that are not in evidence - that a fairy can turn bad (no evidence of it in Baum, though Faleero seems to be a case from Thompson), and that this fairyhood is transferrable to a mortal. I can't prove it's impossible, but one would think that it wouldn't be necessary to go through the elaborate business of the Cloak of Immortality for Santa Claus if there were other ways of bestowing immortality. I concede that in _Wizard_ Dorothy appears to have some attachment to Kansas, but that seems to have disappeared as she grew a little older and became much more well-traveled, between her trip to Australia and her several trips to Oz and the surrounding countries. Craig: I believe that hardcovers of _Glass Cat_ are only available directly from Books of Wonder. It was a limited edition of 350 copies, IIRC, of which about half had been sold as of a year ago; I don't know about its current availability. The latest catalog I have lists it at $34.95, Item Z25-09140. Toll free number for ordering is 800-835-4315. Bear: If my theory about Oz is correct then California may well be in line-of-sight to the Emerald City, at least part of the time, so that a directional radio beam could get there as long as it had the characteristics needed to get through the magical barrier. I'll have to do research on the global warming. I've seen figures cited in sources that I trust, but I don't have any at my fingertips. As for _The Population Bomb_, I don't recall just what they predicted, but it's true that within the last 50 years the population of the world has gone from 2 billion to 9 billion, and population growth doesn't seem to be slowing down. It will eventually, of course, but there's likely to be a lot of misery involved in the process. You and I are fortunate enough that we're unlikely to live to see it, but overpopulation is a whole lot likelier to make our children or grandchildren miserable than government regulations. I'm not a "Limbaugh fan," but I listen to him every once in a while to renew my faith in the essential gullibility of the far right. Garrett: What do you mean by "Is anyone interested in Trot or Betsy?" I find Trot a very appealing character, and have used her in _Glass Cat_ and in a short story that was in _Oziana_ a couple of years ago. Betsy I find rather less appealing, but I've nothing against her. We haven't talked about them as much as Dorothy because we haven't yet gotten to the books where they appear. (Speaking of which, though, do I remember correctly that when we finish discussing EC, we're moving on to _Sea Fairies_ and _Sky Island_ before coming back to Oz for _Patchwork Girl_? I know we agreed that those two books should be discussed before _Scarecrow_, but I forget whether we were going to take them in publication order, in which case they'd be next, or right before _Scarecrow_. It might be a good idea to publicize this, because people might want time to order those books if we're going to start discussing them in a month or so. Borders has them in PB, but BoW is offering the two in HC for $39.95, which is a good deal.) Dave: The auto companies are keen on developing electric cars because California is requiring that some fraction of the cars each company sells in the state be zero-emission by some date, electric cars are currently the only kind that are zero-emission, and the auto companies want to sell cars in California. It's one of those nasty government regulations, like the ones that make kids go to school instead of working in factories for a dollar a day the way they would in a true capitalist system. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 10:23:07 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest David Levitan: An Oz newsgroup doesn't sound like something that I'd take part in. David Hulan and Scott Hutchins: Another Aubrey is Israeli statesman Abba Eban. (Aubrey was his given English name.) David Hulan: Another example of a comic strip where the characters age at the same rate as the readers is "Gasoline Alley," which I believe is still running, although not in the local papers. Dave Hardenbrook: The "safety bicycle" (same-size wheels) was already popular in the 1890's. I recently found some 1896 ads Denslow illustrated which needed drawings of bicycles, and in both he drew safety bicycles rather than "penny farthings" (big wheel/little wheel). He also drew safety bicycles in his "The Scarecrow and the Tin Man" a few years later. Yes, Prof. Wogglebug's college had gone co-ed at least by the time of Neill's "Wonder Book," when one of the students is Alma Mater. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 16:09:10 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-01-97 > From: Mike Denio > Someone brought up the potential for an ethical and philosophical > discussion of the Bunburry chapter, but I feel that Ozma stealing the minds > of all her would-be invaders should raise greater ethical questions. Then > again, it is just a story. > The effects of the water of oblivion is to cause the drinker to forget the past. However it does not impare knowledge of language or of bodily function. Ones intelligence is retained, one only has no memories. In Eric Shanower's story "Abby" (in OZ-STORY 2) Conjo actually had lost everything and became a mindless idiot as a result of the water of oblivion, but that is strictly NOT canonical. > _Emerald City_ is one of my favorite all-around Oz books. I really enjoy > Baum's sarcasm, which is in full gear here, but fades quickly in his later > work. I'm also fascinated by the extent to which socialism had integrated > itself into Baum's writing - obviously the fad of the period. Wasn't it > only forty years or so between _Emerald City_ and _Animal Farm_? I'm > constantly amazed at how people can have such strong definitive perceptions > of the ideal society which invariably look ridiculous to following > generations. We are all truly products of our times. The "socialism" of Baum's time was the Fabian Socialism of Bernard Shaw and H.G. Wells, not the so-called socialism of Stalin and Mao. Most of the goals of the Fabians were achieved without their ever having got into power (which might have been a good thing for them). Government in Britain (and America) has become much more responsive to the needs of the people. (I believe in clean air and clean water, and if it requires governmental action to provide themn God bless governmental action!) > On the other hand, other aspects of human behaviour (like the Flutterbudgets) seem to be > timeless. > > Everyone:Is anyone interested in Trot or Betsy > > Garrett > Cap'n Bill and Hank certainly are!!! I just saw the movie CONTACT based on Carl Sagan's novel, and enjoyed it very much. I remember reading (perhaps not in the digest) that someone considered the ending a terrible cop-out. I would like to know why? By the way there is an Oz allusion in the film so it is not totally irrelevant. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 16:47:23 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Jeremy >Bear: I'm not going to argue--we've had enough little mini-arguments for one Digest. Gee, that was an easy win. I wonder what it was about? :) Bob - You don't make a very good case for the government. >(They got me three times, with the Salk vaccine and the Sabin vaccine in school and then the Army did it again to me. All of these shots and you only needed one? Well, what does it matter, "the government" is paying for them, right? Sigh. David - I have made a resolution to myself to avoid commenting on false dichotomies. I will save such discussions for our eventual meeting over an adult beverage at an Ozcon. Yes, Glinda told me she had every confidence that Ozma could handle the Nome King and his allies so she didn't interfere. John >I,for one, do not care to challenge the authority of Harlan the Great and Terrible. Would you consider challenging the authority of Harlan the Pompous and Arrogant? Craig >Regarding "global warming." What we don't know is exactly what the effect of the change will be... whatever happens, it won't be good, and we should take corrective actions... Do I hear Chicken Little squawking again? We don't know really if anything is wrong, we don't know what will happen, but our feelings tell us we should run out there and do something anyway. Beam me up! Dave >If there's absolutely no foundation whatsoever for global warming, then why are the auto companies becoming so keen on developing electric cars? They aren't "keen" on it. Our government, driven again by those with questionable agendas and little scienctific support have decreed that a certain percentage of autos must by electric by a given year. I forget the exact dates and percentages. Currently electric cars make no sense. The batteries are still too heavy and too inefficient and the performance life is too short. Also, to charge the batteries requires electricity. It is not going to be produced by wind, sunlight, geothermal sources, etc. Our government and the legal system have effectively eliminated the best potential source, nuclear due to public hysteria. Thus, the needed electricity is going to be generated by burning fossil fuels thus producing more pollution. Beam me up again. Sadly, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:32:49 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-27-97 Craig: "What to Expect When You're Expecting," and "What to Expect the First Year," are great pregnancy and baby books. I had them when I was expecting my first & only child. Earl: > "Only bad witches are ugly." Maggie & GWN: What?!? Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 20:00:55 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-01-97 David L.: All I meant was that I didn't want anyone to see an implied "w" and "k" at the beginning and end of the hierarchy (?) name. With the choices we have, that does seem to be the best alternative. By the way, I like your web page (now that I've found it!). "Everyone:Is anyone interested in Trot or Betsy": I could say what comes to mind about that but choose not to. "If there's absolutely no foundation whatsoever for global warming, then why are the auto companies becoming so keen on developing electric cars?": Hear! Idly (and Ozzily) yours, Jeremy Steadman (without Kiex!!!) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 16:58:37 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@Nash.iupui.edu Subject: The Ozzy Digest special--Review of _The Wiz_ soundtrack Cc: lukas@filmscoremonthly.com _The Wiz_ Music by Charlie Smalls, Quincy Jones, Nickolas Ashford, Valerie Simpson, Anthony Jackson, and Luther Vandross Finally we have a CD reissue of the soundtrack to _The Wiz_, when previously all there was was the Broadway album. There unfortunately is no new material from the LP release, but the booklet is inforative, with photos of many of the behind the scenes personnel, and much fuller music credits than are in the film, which include Dave Grusin, Dick Hyman, Toots Thitelmans, and Ray Simpson of the Village People, among over 100 others. The Bugle article called this a kitchen sink album containing the full score, which, unfortuantely is not true. Notably absent are the Ross-Jackson cues of "Ease on Down the Road" in their film versions. This is an album version with a fade out unlike the discovery of the YBR scene or the end credits. Close enough you might say, but also missing is the wonderful piece for the Subway, when the friends are attacked by urban versions of the Hammerheads, Kalidahs, and Fighting Trees. This piece, which, fortunately, can be heard rather well in the film, is reminiscent of early seventies Jerry Goldsmith, particulary the tree/column theme. The Flying Monkey chase funk/dumpsters underscore is also missing. Some portions of the score have diologue over them (do people buy albums just so they don't have to put the tape recorder up to the TV for the full soundtrack, or for the music, I think the latter. At least it isn't overpoweringly ubiquitous as on the James Horner _Apollo 13_ album, which is not a good presentation of his score, which is not _that_ good to begin with, but the limited promo of the score only is a hot collectible. Given a much longer presentation than in the film is "Poppy Girls," which is less repetitive than the Bugle reviewer would have you believe. It was co-written by bass soloist Anthony Jackson and is a nice jazz piece, and nowhere near as repetitive as Philip Glass (not to rag on Philip Glass for you fans, I also like his music. I've seen _Koyaanisqatsi_.) Reading about the making of the film from Quincy Jones's point of view combined with Sidney Lumet's commments in _The Wiz Book_ (a pb of Baum's text, Denslow's illustrations (I think, I can't remember) in b/w, photos from the film, and an introduction by Lumet), really improves my view of the film, which had always been quite positive, but it convinces me that few people understood what the filmmakers had done. Yes, the Poppy Girls look like prostitutes, but didn't Baum hint this in his 1902 play. I don't think this was Julian Mitchell's idea, since Baum wrote the lyrics. The play had the Lion become seduced, and thrown into a paddywagon by the mouse police, a modern interpretation of the book episode. Interestingly, copiuos amounts of the liner notes are devoted to the song "Is this what Feeling Gets?," which only appears in the film (frequently, though) as an instrumental. Judging from the fact the underscore still is contained in the film, and the comments given by Jones it was in the scene with Dorothy in the motel room, and dealt with the morality of killing Evillene, the Wicked Witch of the West, to get home. Dorothy discusses it with her friends in the film version, instead. There is yet more missing from thje album, less important cues like the creepy six-note recorder motif for the Subway Peddler (Clyde J. Barrett), (a character who originally was to appear in _Tip of Oz_, but I can't remember what he was to do in it, anyway) and the dark droning polymorphic synthesizer, which is not much of a loss. Unfortunately, Richard Pryor, though quite good in his role, is not a singer, and could not play the rock star figure represented in the play with two songs (one appears briefly in instrumental here, followed by dialogue. As an added bonus, all of the artists who worked on the album are given credit, and all the lyrics are included, for those fans who have not memorized them (at least those in the play on the old album). 4 (if it had been expanded, a 4 1/2) Scott Hutchins ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 21:41:19 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-31-97 Re: Dave Hulan: "I don't think Trot or Betsy really do anything significant as part of the rescue party in _Lost Princess_." This is interesting in light of the fact that Baum's second choice for the title of the book that became _Lost Princess_ was "Three Girls in Oz". (His first choice was "Adventures in Oz", as the book is referred by that name in the introduction to _Rinkitink_.) [Source: The Baum Bugle] Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 16:52:36 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@Nash.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-01-97 Craig-- Computer models of global warming have so far been inaccurate. So greens say that the actual figures are wrong and that theoretical figures should be followed, and regulations made by them. This is screwy. Harlan Ellison, yes _A Boy and His Dog_. If any of you saw Pavel Arsyenov's film of _Volshebnik Izumrudnogo Goroda_, you can tell he was influenced by L.Q. Jones's film, by the interaction of Elli and Totoshka. In _Tip of Oz_, Tip mentions he has read Ellison, whcih is the triplicate Harlan (Oz fan), Ralph (Tip could care less that Aubrey's boyfriend happens to be black, and Katherine (my friend). Has anyone seen _El Caballero del Dragon_, by Fernando Colombo (released in the U.S. as _Star Knight_. It has something to to with "Ix," bu not necessarily our Ix. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 18:31:23 -0400 From: Lisa Bompiani Subject: Ozzy Digest Hello everyone! I'm afraid the semester is taking over my time to read for fun already! Classes haven't officially started but I have 7 articles for tomorrow evening's class. Isn't grad school fun! Alas, I am fallen behind in my ECOO; I hope my questions, concerns,m etc. will be accepted later. Danny, I liked your differentiation between suspense and surprise. I'm filing it for later use. Bob Spark, I liked that quote about peculiarity and each of us having one. What a boring world this would be if we were all the same! As for the Flying Girl books, I haven't read them, but I think I'm going to pursue this idea and read those books, too, despite the not-so-good recommendation. In a way the styles of Oz and the Girl books may be different, but if the ideas contained within are so different, there seems to be soemthing out-of-whack. Dave Hulan, with the Lewis discussion of myth and the like,it reminds me of how well the Oz fits into the oral tradition of literature. The repeated characters, elements, style, etc., etc, would have worked well in the society's in which storytellers were the key communicators of not only news, but entertainment and education as well. These standards in the tales allowed people to pick up on the story in the middle of a storyteller's performance, as well as remember the tales to pass on to others. Geez, I feel another project coming on . . . Also, I don't let shagginess deter me from anyone, but that just could be the result of too many Godfather movies for me! As for the comic book illustrations telling the story instead of just accompanying it, that's what Shanower told me, which makes a lot of sense to me. Comics have always been a more visual medium. With all this talk of Billina and chicken's, I just picture Gonzo a running across the screen . . . Bear, I'm working on the non-sort-of-boyfriend part, but shucks, these things take time! And, it wasn't a date . . . I actually wanted to help and he thought I was a bit weird for that, but oh well.. He seems shocked that I'm not allergic to outdoor kind of work. I've graduated to feeding the calves, so that's something isn't it? Jeremy, as for the unrefined looking folk getting an unfair twist, I agree. I was always so frustrated wiht my colleagues that walked around saying things like, "look at the way he/she dresses, no wonder he/she is failing." What, I ask, do a person's clothes have to do with his/her ability to take notes off of the board? JOdel, in reference to the multiple story lines being a more sophisticated technique and aimed at a higher level of reading than the previous novels, I thought about the Disney movies, especially Aladdin, where the jokes seemed to directed at more of an adult level than kids. I wonder if Baum did this to make the reading more interesting for the parents reading to their children as Disney did to help parents sit through the movie? As for the writing being disjointed, I'm doing some asking around . . . I never thought about that here in America, but in England that kind of writing was common. Peace & Love, Bompi ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 20:02:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-01-97 X-Authentication-warning: gaston.tenet.edu: robino owned process doing -bs Nickel: FWIW, there is a grade of silver called nickel silver. It's considered cheap silver. 'twouldn't surprise me a bit if Baum knew this and was writing tongue in cheek. David: I'll really check for "Ainur" next time I read LOTR, although I suspect it's not there. J.E.A. Tyler's THE TOLKIEN COMPANION says not a word about Ainur. About the Istari, well,there were 5 of 'em sent from Valinor as an order of wizards. Their job was to unite the good guys and fight against Sauron's evil. They were Valinorans, not mortals. That's about it. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:31:02 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 11-20-96 Tyler: Baum at first made Ozma an ordinary princess--later he transmogrified her into a fairy. Looks like he might have been doing the same to Glinda. :-) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 18:34:32 -0400 (EDT) Date-warning: Date header was inserted by delphi.com From: Bruce Gray Subject: Dark Side of the Rainbow Hi Dave and co! For those interested in such things, I just found a -great- web site for those interested in exploring the connection between Pink Floyd's "Dark SIde of the Moon" and the 1939 movie. It's called "Dark Side of the Rainbow" and can be found at: I also have a link to it on my Ozzy web site: BTW, if you have a great Ozzy web site I don;t know about please send the URL along. Thanks! lbrucegray@rica.net http://206.107.180.50:80/CaptainNemo/index.htm ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 19:54:45 -0700 From: "A.E. Schaible" Subject: Ozzy Digest Jeremy Steadman: Lewis Carroll in "Jabberwocky" wrote of Mome raths, not Nome raths. David Hulan: Sorry for messing up your name. Liz ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 00:11:45 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Robert: I would definitely agree that Dorothy's experiences would make her mature beyond her years, although by now she's over 100 years old. Tunnel: It is possible that with all of the Nomes in there during the digging, and the army marching in afterwards, there was too much magical interference to close the tunnel. Whe was only able to put the dust in there. Or perhaps she tried to close the tunnel and the best the belt could do was to fill the tunnel with dust. Bear: Well, LOTR does not actually SAY that Gandalf was Ainur, but it is implied and theorized about in some of the guides and lexicons of Middle-Earth. Also, there is some discussion in _THe Silmarillion_ that some Ainur went into the world as Wizards. David L: Your question of Eureka is an interesting one. She was taken home by Dorothy at the end of _Dorothy and the Wizard_. She was not mentioned at all during _Road_, and she was not brought to Oz by Dorothy, Em or Henry. Yet, in _Patchwork Girl_, Shaggy mentions her a well-established presence in the Royal Palace. Some people have theorized that Eurkea quietly followed the party in _Road_ and nobody wanted to send her back. Also, March Laumer has written a very interesting and involved story about how Eureka REALLY got to Oz... Dave: In _A Runaway in Oz_, we meet a female student at the Wogglebug's College. Melody: It seems to me that you are working the Glinda-as-fairy angle backwards. In other words, you want Glinda to be a fairy, so you look for ways that it could have happened and declare that as evidence that she is. Granted, Glinda MAY be a fairy, somebody MIGHT have given her the gift, but all the evidence to date says that she is not, and she does not act like a fairy. Is that really so bad in the long run? She is still very powerful and immortal. She is highly respected and loved throughout Oz. To use a little bit of left-wing logic: Does Glinda really NEED to be a fairy? Warren: Could you do a search of the Thompson texts on the word "age" and see if you get anything related to birthdays and not growing old? --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 18:46:24 -0700 From: ozbot Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-31-97 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Bob wrote-- > I didn't consider the information about the Lewis Carroll mailing > list to be spam. > Well, true, but I figured better to ask forgiveness than permission! BTW-- I've had limited success with the Carroll mailing list. Apparently, Amy "Watersnake" compiles the list a la Dave does with ours, but I've only gotten my own messages back with Amy's responces. Apparently, not many others of the few list members are as talkative as the Ozzy posters here! David wrote: >If Baum was trying for suspense > in the Hitchcockian sense, I don't think he did a very good job of it. Well, comparatively, Baum achieves a level of suspence that hasn't been explored in earlier books, due mostly to juggling the parallel stories-- just one aspect of suspence that Hitchcock might use. I agree that if this was Baum's chief aim-- suspence-- it could be manufactured better (Baum's craft of writing sometimes leaves a bit to be desired) In a way, it seems like the suspence that is there is almost an accident-- again, by way of the parallel plots. Someone mentioned that Baum could have spotlighted the Fountain's role a bit earlier-- this is an example of what could have hieghtened the book's structure. > > And welcome back - I've been wondering where you've been! > I've been busy :P One project that might interest all here regard the Oz comic from Caliber Comics. (Although others might want to skip this section) The creators of Oz (and the similar original stories War of the Worlds) are creating their own comic company, Arrow Comics Group. Oz will wrap up its storylines from Caliber in a limited series titled Dark Oz, (starting in November) and will start a new series Land of Oz, with new stories. More personally, Oz will spin off into a Wonderland comic, and I have been chosen to be the one handling the art. Dorothy will find herself thrown into Wonderland, where she will meet a grown up and seasoned adventurer Alice, and together they will have to rescue Glinda, who has been captured by the Queen of Hearts. I have drawn a comic detailing the Jabberwocky poem that will appear in Arrow Anthology #1 in November. The WOnderland Prequel will be in Arrow Anthology #2 in December, and the Wonderland series starts January 98. So as you can see, I've been busy! Danny ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 18:38:43 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: for Ozzie Digest Hi there, I can't remember who recommended Orson Scott Card's _Ender's Game_. Was if one of the Robins? Ruth (if a Ruth is a participant in this discussion)? I'm lousy with names. At any rate, thanks. I enjoyed it. For the greater part of the book (certainly not as a whole) I was struck by the idea that Harry Harrison's _Bil, the Galactic Hero_ could be taken as a parody (_Bil_ is spelled correctly). I find _Bil_ to be hilarious. Perhaps it's just my twisted sense of humor. Maybe you'd have to have been in the army to appreciate it. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 10:34:50 -0700 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest (9/3) X-Authentication-warning: mail3.geocities.com: wht2b6e05.resnet.iup.edu [144.80.104.94] didn't use HELO protocol Craig: I don't really see anything all that odd about Ozites studying subjects like Greek and Latin. The people of Oz seem to speak English, which has some of its roots in these languages. As for learning "The Charge of the Light Brigade," this knowledge of Outside World literature is certainly not an isolated incident in the Oz series. King Dox of Foxville is familiar with Aesop's fables, and the Dictator of Dicksy Land reads a book by Dickens. Anyway, the Education Pills were invented by the Wizard, who certainly has knowledge of Outside World subjects. Anyone notice that the Ozites were apparently familiar with baseball in _Emerald City_, but seemed to be unfamiliar with the sport in Thompson's books? Joyce: Baum does use multiple plotlines in _Emerald City_, but does not seem to have perfected the technique. The adventures of Dorothy's party comprise much more of the book than do Guph's travels. Also, it is clearly documented when Dorothy's party eats or sleeps. We have no idea when (or if) Guph did these things, and how long his journey took. I actually thought that Thompson developed the character of the Cowardly Lion a little more than Baum did (although, admittedly, Thompson's Lion acts very much like most of the other large animals in her books). The McGraws' Lion reminds me more of Thompson's Lion than of Baum's. Jeremy: Those are MOME raths, not NOME raths. Humpty Dumpty defines them as lost green pigs. David Levitan: Eureka eventually came to Oz to live, although when this happened is not clearly documented in the FF. By _Patchwork Girl_, Eureka lives in the Emerald City, but _Dorothy and the Wizard_ is really the cat's only major role within the FF. Dave Hulan: By the time of _Wonder City_, the Wogglebug's College is co-ed. In that book, we meet a female student named Alma Mater. (Get it?) Nathan Mulac DeHoff vovat@geocities.com or lnvf@grove.iup.edu http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 21:43:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Oz A question Dave, Can you post this? Digesters might be able to help. Respond in person as she is not a member of the Digest. Jane --------------------- Forwarded message: From: eliassen@sfsu.edu (Meredith Eliassen) CC: eliassen@sfsu.edu Date: 97-08-25 21:24:20 EDT I received my copy of the L.Frank Baum/Oz survey, thank you. I am working on an essay on scorned literature regarding a period in the 1960's when a number of public libraries pulled Oz books from their shelves because they did not want to maintian the series. I have more than enough information on that period, but I wanted to update the article by discussing how libraries feel about the early Oz books now, mainly to see if libraries have re-evaluated their collection policies. Can you recommend someone that I can talk to who might be quoted for this article. I have some time to work on this essay, and there are many thought-provoking issues that have come up, which could make for a "meaty" article. Thank you in advance for your assistance. Meredith Eliassen Archives/Special Collections San Francisco State University Library 1630 Holloway Avenue San Francisco, CA. 94132 ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 15:20:02 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@stutz.iupui.edu Subject: Warning: could not send message for past 4 hours (fwd) Oz I never seem to be able to contact Bill Wright, but this information my me of interest. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 07:23:27 +0200 (MET DST) From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Warning: could not send message for past 4 hours ********************************************** ** THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY ** ** YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE ** ********************************************** The original message was received at Wed, 3 Sep 1997 03:16:09 +0200 (MET DST) from root@iris.iupui.EDU [134.68.220.32] ----- The following addresses had transient non-fatal errors ----- bw@neptun.computas.no (expanded from: ) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- bw@neptun.computas.no... Deferred: Connection refused by neptun.computas.no. Warning: message still undelivered after 4 hours Will keep trying until message is 5 days old Reporting-MTA: dns; aslan.computas.no Arrival-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 03:16:09 +0200 (MET DST) Final-Recipient: RFC822; bw@aslan.computas.no X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; bw@neptun.computas.no Action: delayed Status: 4.4.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; neptun.computas.no Last-Attempt-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 07:23:27 +0200 (MET DST) Will-Retry-Until: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 03:16:09 +0200 (MET DST) Return-Path: From: sahutchi@stutz.iupui.edu Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 19:33:43 -0500 (EST) cc: "'sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu'" Subject: Re: Oz films In-Reply-To: <716F89869E70CF11BA8100805F389C523FCC2C@NEPTUN> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I have no idea what this is, but it is not the boxed set. There is an airplane in Larry Semon's 1925 film _Wizard of Oz_ in which Snowball flies the Scarecrow on a rope, but the Scarecrow crashes into a water tower, ending the dream. I've read that Larry Semon was never able to finish anything, so it stops, even without a cliffhanger. There is the 1967 film Dan Mannix had seen, but his description does not allow for an airplane, nor does Chris Lofven's _Oz_, which has Dorothy in a van crash. I have not seen these latter two, nor have I seen Jim Abrahams's _Airplane!_, but I believe all that has is someone yell "It's a twister!" It is not the 1991 Sugar & Spice partody, or any other comic version I am awarte of. It might be _The Kentucky Fried Movie_, but I don't know. At any rate, I've never seen it. Perhaps it's the 1956 film I ordered from Reel but have yet to receive. I would love to see the advertisement, though. It might lead me to discover what film this is. Scott On Mon, 1 Sep 1997, Bill Wright wrote: > Scott, > > Have received a query from someone, the question think you may be more > knowledgeable than I. > > >An advertisement in a recent inflight magazine (Southwest) > for a set of videos references a movie version that had them going to > Oz in an airplane. Since so many movie takeoffs have been done on > the Oz books, I am trying to find out which movie version has the > airplane transportation. > > >I've just contacted classic movies and asked them to read the sleeves > on the videos they are offering in a 4 boxed set hoping to find a > reference to Dorothy flying via airplane on the sleeve promo of one of > them. > > I'm not aware of any movie that has Dorothy flying to Oz in an airplane. > Does this ring a bell with you?? > > Bill in Ozlo > > ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 03 Sep 97 23:27:51 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things DIANA: I'm still in shock after hearing today that Princess Diana Spencer is now in Oz. First Carl Sagan, now her! I'm just so devested and depressed! Well, at least Ozma will protect her at long last from the "gutterpress" that helped kill her. GLOBAL WARMING: Bear wrote: >Do I hear Chicken Little squawking again? Instead of posting a passionate rebuttal, I think I'll just give you James Thurber's retelling of that classic fable: "Once upon a time a little red hen was picking up stones and worms and seeds in a barnyard when something fell on her head. "'The heavens are falling down!' she shouted... "All the hens that she met and all the roosters and turkeys and ducks laughed at her, smugly, the way you laugh at one who is terrified when you aren't... "Finally a...rooster said to her, 'Don't be silly, my dear, it was only a pea that fell on your head.' "And he laughed and laughed and everybody else except the little red hen laughed. "Then suddenly with an awful roar great chunks of crystalized cloud and huge blocks of icy blue sky began to drop on everybody...for the heavens actually *were* falling down[!] "MORAL: It wouldn't surprise me a bit if they did." :) :) :) My point is that "Chicken Little" is always invoked (as though scientests were all ranting maniacs) as an _Argumentum ad Hominem_ against those who understand how delicate the balance of nature truly is. Let's make sure the "little red hens" are in fact wrong before we laugh at them. Maybe tomorrow I'll have something Ozzy to say... :) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 5, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 22:57:54 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-01-97 Rich: > Perhaps he thought the suspense surrounding the Nomes' invasion plans so great that he wanted to provide his young readers with a rest, an opportunity to calm down before the next episode involving the Nomes.< Good thought there. As Robin once observed, modern stories seem lacking in comic relief, or film editors are too quick to hack comic relief out of a film (It does not advance the story! Off with its head!) & keep all the violence. (As was done to "Return of the Jedi" when it aired. They chopped out the scene where C-threepio tells the Ewoks the Star Wars saga, complete with sound effects. Good grief! They should've cut some of those redundant, redundant, redundant Rebels VS the Evil Empire fight scenes--but it sure looked like every repetitive, redundant fight scene made it intact. Two vhs versions of Fleischer's animated "Gulliver's Travels" cut the very scenes I remembered best & thought were funniest. Finally bought an unbutchered third version--and it was CHEAPER than the butchered versions(!) You sound like a person who can't stand books/movies/etc that are awful punishing killer suspense all the way through, either. Apparently, for a change, Baum wanted to show some everyday life in Oz, and let the burgeoning invasion of Oz carry the plot. My Oz book contest entry, "Forever in Oz," showed a lot of everyday life in Oz & let Nick Chopper's strange family situation carry the plot. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 06:32:58 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-04-97 Bear, My point was that I (and everyone else) was protected from polio. I never claimed efficiency for the government. I just don't believe that it is necessarily malevolent (unless Newt, Helms, Dick Armey or others of their ilk are involved). > Is anyone interested in Trot or Betsy? I believe that the question was meant in an erotic sense, as some of us seem to have those feelings for Polychrome and Ozma. > "those are MOME raths, not NOME raths" It seems to me that Garrett meant this as a pun. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 09:28:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-04-97 X-Authentication-warning: Joyce-Perkins.tenet.edu: robino owned process doing -bs Every time I see a mention of how Carrollian Bunbury is, I think, "Yeah, but the REAL Carroll episodes are in COWARDLY LION." Even Neill seems to have caught on...I'm at school now and don't have access to the books, but there's a drawing of a gal who could be Carroll's Duchess just as well as the Tenniel version. The Doorways i.e. is especially Carrollian, I think, with its dragging through keyholes and a feeling of senselessness and frustration. Anyone else see it this way? It feels so like ALICE with a rational being observing irrationality. (Kinda like I feel in school some days!) --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 09:46:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-04-97 X-Authentication-warning: Joyce-Perkins.tenet.edu: robino owned process doing -bs I hope I'm the only one to point this out, but my post in the previous DIGEST came headed with a really FUNny header. I wonder if there's a not-so-subtle message in it... Here 'tis:>>X-Authentication-warning: gaston.tenet.edu: robino owned process doing -bs<< ENDER'S GAME: It *is* a good book, isn't it! Who's "Bil"? (Gee, I hate displaying my ignorance in public, but I just don't "get" it.) --R. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 11:51:24 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-04-97 GORDON: <> Indeed, this might well be the cause of the downhill slide of the Oz series during RPT's term as Royal Historian. (That is my opinion, as a 1990's reader, of course. She did add to the series, and her style must have been appropriate for her era.) BUNNYBURY:: It maybe a humorous reflection on some adults; it certainly doesn't reflect well on rabbits! DAVID HULAN: <> I'm not Rushing to listen to him either. SPEAKING OF _CONTACT_: I have a book (at home, which is why I can't remember the bibliographic info), set in the near future, about contact with another life form (a sentience, really) that came from a space trip somewhere. The author was one of the astronauts who landed on the moon, I think. (THe cover said, "The only book about space by a man who has actually been there," or something like that.) The title is one word; I would say it might be _Contact_ except that the author was not Carl Sagan. (One of the author's names began with a G, I think.) Does anyone have any idea what book I'm talking about? RE GOVERNMENTAL PROTECTION: Bear, don't you think it's good that the government is helping protect us? Or would you prefer we all died from dangerous causes? OZBOT: I've been called many things in my life, but that's the first time I've ever been compared to a poster :-) . --Jeremy Steadman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 16:51:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozmama@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 9-03-97 Sheesh. Third post. Sorry. Copyright date on _Animal Farm_ is 1946. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 21:40:00 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls David - Animal Farm was 1945. Remember? :) And, without going into it further, I continue to be amused at your view of a "capitalist system." Where did you get this experience with one? Liz - You will have to get used to Jeremy. He loves playing with words, and making puns; thus: Nome raths, not Mome raths. Dave - Your passion caused you to gallop past my point. Certainly there are hazards to our environment. However, lets not charge off and "just do it" before we know what we are doing. Examples of people in the government with "OPM Disease" abound where what is done doesn't help the problem or even makes it worse. Can you think of some? Sadly, Bear (:<) P.S. You didn't respond to David's query about the next BCF? ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 22:18:32 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Gordon: Don't forget that _Emerald City_ also provided the model for that oh-so-famous plot line (in and out of the FF): The endless attempts to conquer Oz. David: To picka nit, the current world population is near 6 billion, and is currently increasing at about 100 million a year. Even my right-wing conservative self thinks this is far too much. FYI, I believe the percentage of electriv cars required in CA is around 10% Melody: Well, Baum did have Glinda go from a Witch to a Sorceress, probably because many people still viewed (and view) witches as being evil. Even in his last book, though, Glinda still worked magic much like the other magic-workers and not much like Ozma. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 18:02:28 +0200 From: Bill Wright Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 09-04-97 Stephen, > What is more disturbing is the incredible coincidences upon which the resolution of so many of his plots depend.< I wonder how much of this can be attributed to the audience he was writing for: generally 10 to 15 year olds. Today perhaps we are a bit more sophisticated and know that problems are not so fortuitously resolved. But perhaps in those earlier days his approach was more in tune with the presumed "innocence" of the reader. Gordon, I agree with your comments on EC, and similar comments by other Digests. I read this book at least 20 times while planning and producing the EC audio book. There are really a lot of funny things in it. In the recording studio sessions the whole cast from time to time would break down into such laughing fits that we had to take a break just to calm down and get back to the business of recording the book. (PS: the various things in Bunbury were popular food products of the period, e.g. Zuzu Wheel.) Bompi, > I wonder if Baum did this to make the reading more interesting for the parents reading to their children as Disney did to help parents sit through the movie? < This same thought occurred to me as I read the books to my children.......if so, I am grateful to him. BTW, I noticed the same thing in The Muppets. The Bert and Ernie routines would have me rolling on the floor when my little ones didn't have a clue as to what was so funny. I presume you watched them as a kid. Now that you are older, go back and watch again. It will be a whole new level of enjoyment. Scott, thanks for the info. My mail server was dead for four days this week. That is why you could not get to me. Regards, Bill in Ozlo ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 13:41:44 -0400 From: Lisa Bompiani Subject: Ozzy Digest Hello, I just finished reading _Harlots of the Desert_ for my Medieval Women's Lit class. Extremely interesting . . . ut now I'm moving on to Oz research! In regards to SteveTeller's comments to B. Spark: Weren't some folks just commenting on the somewhat Deus Ex Machina aspect to certain Oz tales? It seems a lot of authors "write themselves into a corner" and then use this dependable technique to get out. I don't know what this reveals about the writing: lack of effort, confusion as to where it's heading, or just giving people a way out of the tale/story. The Greeks didn't seem to have any problem with the gods coming down from the heavens to save the day, but then again the gods were a large part of their culture and expected to help. Our dislike for this literary technique might alos be related to modern day society's inability or unwillingness to believe in the unbelievable, unreal, or seemingly impossible. As for the women's characters, I'm defintely goin to get ahold of some of his other non-Oz, so for right now, I'll have to not comment about them. In reference to the Bunnybury/Carroll connection, there are some I think more than just the white rabbits (I kept hearing Python's "It's just a bunny rabbit!" while I read it). Namely, the small entrance, the white rabbit who led Dorothy there as Alice was led through the hole and Dorothy needing to shrink her size to enter the town. I found the King's requests to keep his clothes and chair hilarious. it's funny how people complain abou tpositions in life, but when given opportunities to leave, still want the so-called benefits of that position. Then, he changes his mind about leaving the city. Could this be some variation on the "no place like home" idea or am I way off? Steve T.: As for the allusion to _Ernest_, do you think it has anything to do with creating something in your mind and then coming to believe it yourself, or convincing others of its reality, as Baum was attempting to do, and doing, with Oz? Dave Hulan: _Animal Farm_ was published in 1946, only 3 years prior to _1984_. "We are truly a product of our times" - Exactly! We are subjected to the ideas and tnets of our times, and the fact that some of htese eleements of Baum's time show up in his writing to us as later generations seems obvious; however, at the time, it was hard for these to be identified since they were so much a part of the thinking of the period. Jodel: Serialization was common in mid 1800's in England. Often books were completed, but released as serials, whereas folks like Dickens wrote as they went along. A lot of these installments ended in moments of suspense, like today's soap operas, to ensure readership. Maybe Baum's later involvement with newspapers towards the end of the century influenced his writing style. Plus, once Baum gained popularity, he has a sort of freedom to expereiment with styles of writing. Obviously, some successful, some not. Danny, where can I get back copies of the Caliber comic? I moved from VA and can't find it here too easily, at least the back copies. Well, back to the grind. I have to say the illustrations project is coming along . . . Peace & Love, Bompi ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 05 Sep 97 12:54:41 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things MY ISP: Delphi, my Internet Provider just announced a semi-merge with Mindspring, and they are now trying to persuade me to come over to their service. I know there are folks here on Mindspring, so I was wondering if you could tell me how they like Mindspring's Internet service. Sigh. Everytime I get used to how Delphi currently has things set up, they change it. CHILDREN'S BOOKS FOR ADULTS: Bill W. wrote: >This same thought occurred to me as I read the books to my >children.......if so, I am grateful to him. BTW, I noticed the same >thing in The Muppets. The Bert and Ernie routines would have me rolling >on the floor when my little ones didn't have a clue as to what was so >funny. I presume you watched them as a kid. Now that you are older, go >back and watch again. It will be a whole new level of enjoyment. One thing I feel that way about is _The Phantom Tollbooth_...There were a lot of jokes in it that I didn't get until rereading it as an adult. Wordsnacher: "I come from a place called Context, but I prefer to spend my time out of it." "ARE YOU A BAD WITCH, OR A GOOD -- AHEM! -- SORCERESS?": Tyler wrote: >Well, Baum did have Glinda go from a Witch to a Sorceress, probably because >many people still viewed (and view) witches as being evil. Is this maybe also why we hear so little of the Good Witch of the North after _Wizard_, and why RPT made such a point of "terminating" her? OZMA EX MACHINA II: Bompi wrote: >Our dislike for this literary technique might alos be related to modern day >society's inability or unwillingness to believe in the unbelievable, unreal, >or seemingly impossible. Well for me, I have no trouble with magical solutions...It *is* fantasy after all. I just don't like the "quick fixes" that have nothing to do with the heroes' own cunning and ingenuity. This is why _Patchwork_, although still my favorite of the Canonical Oz Books, IMHO ends with a major cop-out. Speaking of which, how does everyone feel about starting the _Patchwork_ discussion in two weeks? -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 6, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 19:00:39 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-05-97 BEAR: Me? Play with words? Make a dis-play of them? I've never been so complimented in all my life! ELECTRIC CARS IN CALIF.: Only 10 percent? It could--as our country could--do with a whole lot more. DAVE: You say, "Delphi, my Internet Provider just announced a semi-merge with Mindspring . . ." What is a semi-merge? I know what a semi is and I know what merging is, but--wait; on second thought, I think I'd rather not know . . . NOW, I shall proceed to read _Patchwork_ via Internet, as the library at college has no such tome. Or perhaps I shall do so tome-orrow . . . (That was weak, I know.) With that thought, goodbye. UNTIL NEXT TIME! --Jeremy Steadman P.S. I have received an urgent request from KIEX to allow her to join me at Berry. What do you think? ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 19:41:35 -0700 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Oz Matters X-Authentication-warning: mail1.geocities.com: wht2b6e05.resnet.iup.edu [144.80.104.94] didn't use HELO protocol On Carrollian Influence in Oz: Overall, I thought that Carroll's books contained more Carrollian qualities than did Baum's works. I agree with Robin that _Cowardly Lion_ was probably the most Carrollesque of the FF. King Theodore and Queen Adora definitely remind me of the King and Queen of Hearts. BTW, _Cowardly Lion_ was the first Thompson book that I read. When I read some of her other books, I was struck by the fact that the style used in _Cowardly Lion_ was different from the one that she used in her other Oz books. Regarding Coincidences: The coincidences used to bother me, but, when you think about it, it is very difficult to resolve problems without them, especially within a single fairly short book. True, the level of coincidence in the Oz books is much higher than that which we Outside Worlders experience, but problems rarely get sufficiently resolved in real life. Maybe Oz is secretly hooked up to an Improbability Drive... Oh, BTW, I'm back at college now. Nathan Mulac DeHoff vovat@geocities.com or lnvf@grove.iup.edu http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 19:31:29 -0500 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-04 & 05-97 9/4: Steve: Incredible coincidences are pretty common in popular fiction of that period (and maybe of any period). Some in Edgar Rice Burroughs' books are at least as improbable as Mary Louise's. Tin doesn't really rust; that's why it's used as a coating for cans. It's only a plating on the cans, though, and a soft one at that, so cans that had been handled a fair bit would rust. If Nick was pure tin he wouldn't have rusted either. But nickel plating would have the advantage of being much less easily scratched, which is probably why he chose it. The Glass Cat is "she" in _Patchwork Girl_, and I think once or twice in _Magic_, though most of the time in _Magic_ she's referred to as "it." Gordon: > >"[The wheelbarrow is] made of nabiscos with a zuzu wheel": Does anyone know >what a zuzu wheel was? And if "nabisco" was a common noun, what did it >mean? A generic square cracker? My parents always used "nabisco" as the name for what I think are technically called "Nabisco sugar wafers" - the kind of cookie where each side looks like a mini-waffle, with a very sugary filling in between. They'd certainly make up into a wheelbarrow fairly well. I'm not sure that Baum had the same usage in mind, but I thought I'd throw it in. The Whimsies, Growleywogs, and Phanfasms are characterized as Evil Spirits with no redeeming qualities, which I suppose is why it's never bothered me that they lost their memories. The Nomes, who seem to be mixed good and bad like most people, didn't drink from the Fountain. And, of course, no one was forced to drink, just encouraged. Bear: According to the immunization recommendations that I've seen, multiple immunizations with polio vaccines over a period of years are desirable. Of course, you can say that's just gummint propaganda and I can't prove different. Lisa: >Jeremy, as for the unrefined looking folk getting an unfair twist, I agree. >I was always so frustrated wiht my colleagues that walked around saying >things like, "look at the way he/she dresses, no wonder he/she is failing." >What, I ask, do a person's clothes have to do with his/her ability to take >notes off of the board? Nothing, but a lack of interest in how one dresses might be taken as a lack of interest in the opinions of others entirely. Which would tend to lead to the person's not putting in much work on a subject that wasn't of consuming interest to him. (Really slovenly students usually seem to be male in my experience, though I'm not a teacher and so am not an authority on the subject. I'm just going by what I see driving past schools.) Liz: >David Hulan: Sorry for messing up your name. No problem, and a lot of people call me "Dave" and I answer to it. I only bother to make my preference known with people I consider friends. Danny: Sounds like an interesting project for Arrow Comics. I'll have to check and see if the nearby comic store carries it. (Or Oz Comics, for that matter.)(A new and fairly large comic store is opening this week about 3-4 blocks from where I live, so for once it'll be convenient for me to check.) Nathan: >Anyone notice that the Ozites were apparently familiar with baseball in >_Emerald City_, but seemed to be unfamiliar with the sport in Thompson's >books? In _Road_ Shaggy's skill at catching the Scoodlers' heads and tossing them down the gulf is attributed to his having played a lot of baseball. >I actually thought that Thompson developed the character of the Cowardly >Lion a little more than Baum did (although, admittedly, Thompson's Lion >acts very much like most of the other large animals in her books). The >McGraws' Lion reminds me more of Thompson's Lion than of Baum's. Baum's lion talks a cowardly game, but generally acts bravely. Thompson's lion seems to be genuinely cowardly, especially with regard to thunderstorms - in both _Royal Book_ and _Cowardly Lion_ he panics and puts his companion(s) in danger during a storm. Dave: >DIANA: >I'm still in shock after hearing today that Princess Diana Spencer is now in >Oz. First Carl Sagan, now her! I'm just so devested and depressed! Well, >at least Ozma will protect her at long last from the "gutterpress" that >helped kill her. And now today we lose Mother Teresa as well. Not a good week for good-hearted women. With regard to Diana, though, my reaction on first reading the details was, "Why wasn't she wearing her seat belt? The one person in the car who was wearing his escaped with relatively minor injuries." 9/5: Bob S.: Being erotically interested in Ozma or Polychrome, who are either stated to be or drawn as teenagers, is legitimate enough. Being erotically interested in Trot or Betsy (or Dorothy) is weird and perverty. (Unless you're a pre-teen yourself, anyhow.) Now, if Trot grew up a bit... Jeremy: I think the Oz series suffered during the first eight or ten Thompson books (with a couple of exceptions), but I think her last few books (except _Ozoplaning_) are on average about as good as Baum's. Of course, in those books she'd largely gotten away from the formula, other than the dual plot lines - which Baum used heavily from EC on. I think the book you're thinking of is _Encounter with Tiber_, by "Buzz" Aldrin and John Barnes. (It doesn't meet most of your criteria, but it's a book about alien contact - sort of - with one co-author one of the first men on the moon.) I enjoyed it a lot; it tells you more than you probably want to know about the mechanics of space travel, but the alien-contact part is excellent. Barnes is one of my favorite current SF writers. Robin & Bear: I'd thought AF was earlier, but I no longer have a copy and defer to you. Anyhow, it was still less than 40 years after EC. Bear: >And, without going into it further, I continue to be amused at your view of >a "capitalist system." Where did you get this experience with one? I didn't have this experience [child labor instead of school] with one, because I was born after the beginning of the New Deal when, as you have often complained, true capitalism was hamstrung by government regulations. But I've read about what happened in Britain in the 1800s, and America in the late 1800s and early 1900s when capitalism was operating unfettered by the government. And children from 6 years old up were working 12 hours a day in factories for $1 a day or less. Do you seriously think that would have stopped without government regulation? Tyler: 6 billion. Right. My eyes have been going lately; maybe I saw the number upside down. Or maybe that was a projection for 2010 or something like that. Anyhow, a tripling of the world's population in 50 years is scary to me. I don't think the percentage of electric cars required in CA (as of 1999 or 2000 or whenever it starts) is as high as 10% - my recollection was that it was more like 2% or 5% - but I don't remember exactly. And I think the percentage does go up with time; it may be 10% by 2010 or so. Lisa: My favorite story about an author writing himself into a corner dealt with a prolific pulp author who ended an installment of a serial with his hero trapped in a 20-foot deep pit. Come time to write the next installment and he still hadn't figured out how to get him out, so he starts off, "With a tremendous leap..." Dave: So we're doing _Patchwork Girl_ next, and not _Sea Fairies_? Two weeks from now is fine for either of them as far as I'm concerned. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 20:45:05 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Jeremy - Well astronaut Buzz Aldrin and John Barnes wrote "Encounter With Tiber" recently. Farther back, in about 1992, astronaut Bill Pogue and Ben Bova wrote "The Trikon Deception." Doesn't sound like either of these. ??? >Bear, don't you think it's good that the government is helping protect us? Or would you prefer we all died from dangerous causes? Jeremy, this is what is known as a "false dichotomy" and I have agreed not to comment on these. I might modestly suggest, however, that you spend some time thinking about what are the proper functions of our government. You are going to spend a lot more time under it than I am. Tyler, I think Oz is full of chickens and you are worried about a few people in our world? >To picka nit, the current world population is near 6 billion, and is currently increasing at about 100 million a year. Even my right-wing conservative self thinks this is far too much. Step right up and be the first on your block to have a vasectomy. Don't we need to set a good example for the world? No question this is a problem; do you have a solution? Bompi - Some authors write a book from a detailed outline (probably ex-engineers) while others start with an idea and just follow it to see where it takes them. This latter approach could get them into a corner. The reason I know this is from reading a lot of authors talking about their craft in Locus. David - I tried to be helpful in re the BCF. Guess he doesn't read our posts. Cryptically, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 19:08:53 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-05-97 Robin, > ENDER'S GAME: It *is* a good book, isn't it! Who's "Bil"? (Gee, I hate > displaying my ignorance in public, but I just don't "get" it.) --R. > Perhaps my message was garbled, or I was unclear. The book in question was Harry Harrison's "Bil, The Galactic Hero". It kept coming to mind as I read "Ender's Game". Dave Hardenbrook, Two weeks for a start of the _Patchwork_ discussion sounds good to me. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 23:19:11 -0700 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest X-Authentication-warning: mail4.geocities.com: wht2b6e05.resnet.iup.edu [144.80.104.94] didn't use HELO protocol Dave L. Hardenbrook wrote: > > Hi! > At 02:28 PM 9/5/97 -0700, you wrote: > >Did you get my message about having the Ozzy Digest to > >lnvf@grove.iup.edu? I haven't received a Digest for several days. > > Sorry, I forgot to update it...Can you tell again what your old address > was? Also, let me know which ones you're missing and I'll send them > to you... > My old address was haldehoff@aol.com. I have the Digests for 27 and 31 August, as well as the one for 5 September. My father forwarded those first two, and the last arrived at my school account today. I guess I need the ones that come in between those. Nathan Mualc DeHoff vovat@geocities.com or lnvf@grove.iup.edu ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 21:07:33 -0700 From: Douglas or Lori Silfen Subject: for Ozzy Digest Dave: Patchwork discussion is fine. However, I think David wanted to discuss THE SEA FAIRIES. Whatever you folks want is fine with me. All: Why is it that Baum often disregarded the endings of his book? What I mean by this...is ********SPOILER----VARIOUS-ENDINGS DISCUSSED ************************** Ruggedo loses his memory at the end of EC, but regains it somehow for the start of Tik-Tok. At the end of Tik-Tok, he reforms, but then is evil once again somehow at the start of MAGIC. Eureka is banished at the end of Dorothy/Wizard in Oz, but somehow is back in Oz for later books (and is pink too as somebody here pointed out) The Glass Cat's entire personality is supposed to have changed at the end of Patchwork Girl, yet there she is, back to her old personality in MAGIC. Is it that he thought he wouldn't write about these characters again and so provided a nice ending for them? I'm curious about this. take care all! Douglas ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Sep 97 02:35:16 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things I just want to apologize to David Hulan for missing his post about our having _The Sea Fairies_ as the next BCF. I've had hectic week and I've been kind of skimming over the Digests. I even missed seeing his and others' posts about my deserving the Baum Award ( Thanks guys; I'm blushing! :) )...And we did agree that we would do the two Trot books as BCFs, so I humbly apologize on two counts. So (and this is official), the next BCF will be _The Sea Fairies_, starting two weeks from Monday. -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 7 - 8, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 06:46:21 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-06-97 Hi! About that silly X-Authentication-warning that has been preceding several of our posts, any ideas what it means? As I'm sure most if not all of know, Nabisco stands for National Biscuit Company. I was under the impression that Nabisco's were cookies resembling Oreos. > On Carrollian Influence in Oz: > Overall, I thought that Carroll's books contained more Carrollian > qualities than did Baum's works. Huh? Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 10:39:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-05-97 Hi Dave, Here's catalog information on the first edition of _Animal Farm_. 1. Author: Orwell, George, 1903-1950. Title: Animal farm; a fairy story, by George Orwell. London; Secker & Warburg, 1945. Description: 91 p. 19 cm. Notes: Satire on dictatorship. "First published May 1945." Call numbers: UCR Rivera PR6029.R84 A75 1945 Spec Coll UCSB Main Lib PR6029.R8 A63 1945 Special Coll UCR=University of California, Riverside UCSB=University of California, Santa Barbara I believe the first American edition, 1946, was published by Harcourt, Brace. Peter ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 14:21:13 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-06-97 TYLER: <> I should hope so! RE: COINCIDENCES: Funny you should mention that just as I was thinking about them . . . _ENCOUNTER WITH TIBER_? No, this is not the book I'm thinking of. When I go home in mid-October (or earlier) I'll take a look at my shelves (if I remember), but until then I simply don't know. But I am still convinced it was a one-word title . . . "ENDINGS GAMES": I don't think it's so much that Baum disregarded the endings of his books as he wanted to do more with the characters as originally introduced. (I too dislike the cartoonish snappings-back into place, but that's what he did. Perhaps there is a Magic Giant Invisible Rubber Band that handles such matters in Oz . . .) Ending gamely. Jeremy Steadman P.S. I noticed that my post yesterday had a small addition at the end that I distinctly remember NOT being there when I sent it. Which tells me a lot about the safety of the Internet . . . --JMS ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 11:39:43 -0700 From: ozbot Subject: Ozzy Digest stuff Caliber and Arrow Comics-- In regards to someone's questions (sorry, I "snipped" you and don't want to scroll thru the Digest!) Caliber's OZ series can be found in back issue bins and current comic racks at specialty stores. They have a very small print run (compared to, say, Batman or Spider-Man) so you may need to ask the retailer if they even order it. Arrow Comics will split off from Caliber in Novemeber, and the new OZ series (first Dark Oz and then The Land of OZ) will be from them. Again-- small print runs, so ask your retailer. A Back Issues catalogue from Caliber can be found by writing Caliber Comics at 225 N. Sheldon Road, Plymouth, MI 48170. There is also a toll free number 1 - 888 - 22 - COMIC, but I don't know if that's for orders directly or what. I think Books of Wonder was also offering the Trade Paperback collections of the first 15 or so comics in several volumes. Arrow Comics has a web site at http://www.arrowcomics.com Thanks for your interest and support-- I know some have a problem with the, uh, liberties the OZ artists have taken! FWIW, my Wonderland designs keep the animals looking fairly more animalistic (although they are still vaguely humanoid) and Alice will be dressing Dorothy in a bit more appropriate clothing than the near-pure-fantasy costume she had been wearing for a while. Back to your regularly scheduled Digest. . . Danny ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 15:37:32 -0500 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-06-97 Jeremy: >ELECTRIC CARS IN CALIF.: >Only 10 percent? It could--as our country could--do with a whole lot >more. Not until they come up with more efficient batteries. Electric cars would probably be useful for short commutes and otherwise running around town for short distances, but they wouldn't be satisfactory as the only car for almost any household. Much more effective would be raising the gasoline tax to European levels to discourage people from buying gas-guzzling SUVs and light trucks unless they really need them, and not just to make a macho statement. (It would also make driving a lot easier for those of us who prefer a normal sedan and would like to be able to see down the road. Or see whether there's anything coming when backing out of a parking space.) >P.S. I have received an urgent request from KIEX to allow her to >join me at Berry. What do you think? I'd leave her at home if I were you, but it's your decision... Nathan: I agree that _Cowardly Lion_ has a considerably different style from the one Thompson used in the rest of her books - and a jolly good thing, too! I don't think Baum's Oz books overdo coincidence all that much - some, but not that much more than the average. Most of them could be put down to the workings of magic, even if there wasn't any direct voluntary exercise of magic involved. (E.g. the Nome King's tunnel ending up right in front of the Forbidden Fountain - maybe by Glinda's actions?) Bear: >Bompi - Some authors write a book from a detailed outline (probably >ex-engineers) while others start with an idea and just follow it to see >where it takes them. This latter approach could get them into a corner. >The reason I know this is from reading a lot of authors talking about their >craft in Locus. I dunno - I'm an ex-engineer, and I've never written a book from a detailed outline. I usually have a beginning and an ending and a set of characters in mind, and maybe a few incidents that I want to happen along the way, and the rest pretty much develops as I write. Of course, I've only sold one book so far... Douglas: ********SPOILER----VARIOUS-ENDINGS DISCUSSED ************************** Those you mention aren't the only cases where Baum seems to forget his endings. We've already talked about how Ozma's checking on Dorothy every Saturday afternoon at the end of _Ozma_ changed to every day at four o'clock in _DotWiz_. And Oz is supposed to be invisible from the outside after EC, but Trot and Cap'n Bill and Button-Bright don't seem to have any problems coming in in _Scarecrow_, Dorothy and the Wizard go out via Magic Carpet and come back with Inga and company the same way in _Rinkitink_, and Kiki Aru leaves and comes back with Ruggedo in _Magic_. There are probably others that don't come to mind offhand. My theory is that Baum was prescient and did it on purpose so that future writers could enjoy writing new stories to explain these apparent discrepancies. :-) I have unpublished books explaining two of yours - the one about Eureka and the one about the Glass Cat. Dave: No apology needed; I know you're busy and often don't have time to read every word of every Digest. But I did want to know if I needed to start rereading _Sea Fairies_, since I don't have its story as nearly memorized as I do those of the FF. I expect others need to do the same. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 17:06:12 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Jeremy - Is that Dave Barry U. that you are attending? I think I get it. Gasoline = Bad, Electricity = Good. The gasoline comes out of the ground, where does the electricity come from? David - Now that you mention it we did get a series, we think there were three. Remember sugar cubes? However, it sounded like Bob got the same series multiple times. Great - I've been wanting to read "Sea Fairies" and now I have a reason. We can read the only PG book in the FF later. :) David, is this the book you think is Baum's best or was it "Sky Island?" Weekend regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 16:25:11 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-06-97 > From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff > BTW, > _Cowardly Lion_ was the first Thompson book that I read. When I read > some of her other books, I was struck by the fact that the style used in > _Cowardly Lion_ was different from the one that she used in her other > Oz books. BTW: COWARDLY LION was the *last* Thompson book that I read for the first time; it is also my absolutely least favorite Thompson book. The two facts may be related. > > From: David Hulan > 9/4: > Steve: > Incredible coincidences are pretty common in popular fiction of that period > (and maybe of any period). Some in Edgar Rice Burroughs' books are at least > as improbable as Mary Louise's. So much the worse for popular fiction! > > The Glass Cat is "she" in _Patchwork Girl_, and I think once or twice in > _Magic_, though most of the time in _Magic_ she's referred to as "it." > And in THE GLASS CAT OF OZ . . . ? > Gordon: > > > >"[The wheelbarrow is] made of nabiscos with a zuzu wheel": Does anyone know > >what a zuzu wheel was? And if "nabisco" was a common noun, what did it > >mean? A generic square cracker? > I always thought a Zuzu was a type of ginger snap, but I have no evidence to susport this. The only Zuzu I can trace is in "It's a Wonderful Life" who is noted for having petals fall off her flower. > ********SPOILER----VARIOUS-ENDINGS DISCUSSED ************************** > > Ruggedo loses his memory at the end of EC, but regains it somehow > for the start of Tik-Tok. At the end of Tik-Tok, he reforms, but then is > evil once again somehow at the start of MAGIC. > In the Nome Kingdom there are lots of wicked nomes to remind him of his past self. > Eureka is banished at the end of Dorothy/Wizard in Oz, but somehow is > back in Oz for later books (and is pink too as somebody here pointed > out) See THE CARELESS KANGAROO OF OZ by March Laumer and THE COLORFUL KITTEN OF OZ by Chris Dulabone > > The Glass Cat's entire personality is supposed to have changed at the > end of Patchwork Girl, yet there she is, back to her old personality > in MAGIC. > Noone really likes a modest cat! > > Douglas Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 14:56:43 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Ozzie Digest Howdy, Please don't take this as an objection, but I am curious about the reason for taking _Yew_ and _Sea Fairies_ next (or vice versa) next in order. Will that become apparent as we discuss them? Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 18:21:24 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-05-97 So what is impossible about "Sir Gyle"? That's what I didn't get. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 19:14:59 -0700 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Oz Stuff X-Authentication-warning: mail3.geocities.com: wht2b6e05.resnet.iup.edu [144.80.104.94] didn't use HELO protocol David Hulan: It has been suggested that Nick Chopper's joints are made of iron. This could be why they can rust. Douglas: Baum may have originally intended not to use Bungle after _Patchwork Girl_, and not to use the Nome King after _Emerald City_ or _Tik-Tok_. The loose ends that Baum left make excellent opportunities for more recent hoztorians, however. I wrote "Ruggedo and the School of Magic" and "Alliance of the Elementals," which were attempts to tie up some of the loose ends in the saga of the Nome King. As for the Glass Cat, _Bungle and the Magic Lantern of Oz_ explains that Bungle was given back her pink brains after she attempted to drown herself in a bowl of lima beans. Nathan Mulac DeHoff vovat@geocities.com or lnvf@grove.iup.edu http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 18:33:02 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-06-97 Does anyone know about a 1956 film of _Wizard of Oz_. I tried to order this from Reel, but I got my letter and a check telling me it was out of print and unavailable, and removed from their catalog. I didn't know it existed until then, and have no clue what it could be... and they wouldn't tell me. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 18:43:11 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-04-97 Marvel Comics do have characters age, but since a story encompassing a few hours is told across several issues it can slow things down. Spider-Man was 16 when his comicbook started, but is now in his thirties with a wife and child. Granted, he should be older, and the fact that he has one title a week makes it easier to tell the stories (though each is by an artist with a radically different style, especially back in the late eighties when Todd McFarlane did _The Amazing Spider-Man_, and then created his own title, _Spider-Man_. DC characters also age, Dick Grayson is in his twenties and called Nightwing. But I haven't had time to read these for many years, so things may have changes further. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 22:38:16 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-04-97 Tyler Jones: >Does Glinda really NEED to be a fairy?< No. I tend to think she was not born or created a fairy--which would explain why she does not work magic like one. As one post said, Baum may have been playing with the idea, as he first did with Ozma, of making Glinda a Fairy with a capital F, also. But, except for the Wizard's statement, Baum never came directly out with it. One does wonder what he would have done with Glinda had he lived to author a few more Oz books. :-) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 22:35:43 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-04-97 David: >This assumes a couple of facts that are not in evidence - that a fairy can turn bad (no evidence of it in Baum, though Faleero seems to be a case from Thompson), and that this fairyhood is transferrable to a mortal. I can't prove it's impossible, but one would think that it wouldn't be necessary to go through the elaborate business of the Cloak of Immortality for Santa Claus if there were other ways of bestowing immortality.< The Cloak of Immortality could still be very important if it is very rare for a fairy to turn bad. It is possible that such a thing had never happened before at the time of "Life and Adventures," but did happen later. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 16:32:34 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest Before I get to things Ozzy, I have an announcement to make: Megan Jade Mock Noble was born Thursday, September 4, 1997 at 11:34 a.m.. She was 7 pounds, 5 ounces and 19 inches long. Megan and her mother, Terry, are doing well and healthy. I brought them home from the hospital yesterday (Saturday). We are thrilled and very proud of our little princess. It will be a while before she's ready to have the Oz books read to her, but her father is very excited by the prospect. In the meantime, I am still trying to figure out a way to add an Ozzy touch to the nursery decorations. Emerald City: I have finished rereading it (Fortunately before Megan was born -- otherwise I wouldn't have had time!) I know that some people have criticized this book for its extraneous episodes (or whatever the official term is), but more than 20 years after my first reading of it, it is still a favorite. The dual plots are wonderful, the villains ingenious, the odd Oz denizens appropriate considering that this was a tour after all. Most importantly, (as someone else also noted), this fulfills an important loose end -- Dorothy, Aunt Em and Uncle Henry finally come to Oz for good. What more could we ask for? These first six books are the ones I have reread the most. The others will be more of an adventure. Let's keep up the good reading! -- Craig P.S. - Anyone receive Fred Meyer's summary of the survey results? What do you think? ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 23:31:05 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Dave: Starting _Patchwork Girl_ at that time is fine with me. David: I've heard about the 12 to 16 hour days at a very low wage. No rights either. If you were injured, you were shown the door. IMHO, it would not have changed without government regulation or a shift in public attitude, which is nearly the same thing. Bear: No solution to population (I'm not even going to mention Jonathan Swift, except to mention that I'm not mentioning him). To make matters worse, I would like several children of my own someday. Let it be said that most of this increase is in third world countries, while affluent countries face declining birthrates with increased prosperity. Maybe the solution is capitalism? (no, that can't be right) Doug: Hmm, lots of interesting questions. I'll jump in. Ruggedo (at least in the FF) has been dunked in the fountain three times. Twice in Baum and once in Thompson. We on the digest have theorized that Ruggedo, being a fairy creature and not fully human, may have a partial immunity to the water. That is, it works, but then wears off after a few years. We've been discussing Eureka's transplantation on the digest very recently. The two leading theories are (A) That Eureka sneaked along anonymously in _Road_ or that she was brought to Oz later, in a manner similar to March Laumer