] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 29 - OCTOBER 1, 1998 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:58:00 -0400 From: Bruce Gray Subject: Oz Digest: Art and story in LP Hi all! I've been following the discussion of Lost Princess this time with the aid of three different copies of LP: a trade paper reprint (with "Rand McNally" on the spine), a Del Rey paperback, and an "Aerie" paperback (which they sold in Wal-Marts a while back for $0.50). The "Aerie" copy doesn't have any interior illustrations. I must say that of the three editions I have, I prefer the cover art to the Del Rey edition. I, for one, would love to see Michael Herring do more Oz related art. Although we know the Frogman didn't visit Thi during LP, the cover other than that is one of the most Ozzy I can remember. Even the door and windows on the house in the background are right. LP has always been one of my personal favorites (along with "Emerald City" and "Glinda"). As a child, I never noticed the inconsistencies that we are all noticing now as adults. I enjoy the sagas of travel thru the unknown territories of Oz. One of my favorite parts of any Oz book has always been new areas and "people" to find out about. Even if the interlude doesn't make any sense or advance the story, they're -fun-. I'm not sure Baum ever really intended a theme (as these books were written in a time when "theme" wasn't as recognized as it is now) but if there is one, I'd say it was loss and return. Several things are lost and are returned in this book over the course of the story. I've lost count of all of them now, but we have at least: Ozma, the dishpan, Glinda's Book, the Wizard's Bag, Toto's growl, Button Bright (again? :-) and many others. Sorry if this letter got here late - I've been real busy at work and on my "regular" web pages lately. BTW, I just got this cool catalog from a company called: "What On Earth" with a -lot- of neat Oz things in it on pages 58 and 59. They have a toll free number - 800-945-2552. I have nothing to do with this company. Ask for the "Holiday Preview" issue and tell them why! BTW, my URL for my Oz Sites page has changed again: http://home.rica.net/CaptainNemo/link/ozwizard.htm Bruce Gray lbrucegray@rica.net ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:54:17 -0700 (PDT) From: VoVat Quetzalcoatlus Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-28-98 X-Originating-IP: [144.80.160.14] > Where else in Baum's books do we find information on animal speech? JOHN >DOUGH tells us that on Phreex different animals have different languages, >so they can't speak to each other or to humans. Actually, this was on the Isle of Mifkets, not Phreex. We meet a talking horse on Phreex, but whether this equine is a special case or an indication that all animals on Phreex can talk is unknown. Duo the dog didn't talk, and I can't recall there being any other Phreexian animals described in the text. ><would >probably never have invaded the Emerald City. Tip, Jack Pumpkinhead >and the >Sawhorse would probably still be wandering around Oz, having all >sorts of >exciting adventures. Would Oz still be divided up between the various >Witches, or would Glinda have ever moved against them? Would the >Wizard >still rule in EC?>> I speculated on this very scenario some time ago, and my ideas are up on my web page somewhere. I forget the exact address of the page (something like dorothy.html), but I believe it can be accessed by way of my Oz page. David: >As for Eureka and Jim (and the piglets, for that matter) talking >before >they get into Oz, Oz is far from the only place where animals can >talk in >Baum's fantasy world. There's Mo, Burzee, Foxville, Dunkiton, Mifket >Island, the Laughing Valley of Hohaho - and, apparently, the >underground >countries encountered in _DotWiz_. Well, I'm not really sure if Burzee and Hohaho count. In _Santa Claus_, it was stated that Claus had learned the languages of animals. Whether an ordinary inhabitant of Hohaho would be able to understand a lioness or reindeer is unknown, but I would tend to doubt it. Nathan http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:11:15 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-28-98 Magic in Oz: No, I'm not talking about the book here. I wanted to give my opinion that J.L. Bell's theory whereby Burzee is the center of magic (in and out of Oz) sounds more reasonable than an "Ozo-centric" view. After all, Oz itself would never have been "magicified" had Burzee's queen not done what she did. (Not that I fault her, by any means!) Or, as Mr. Bell also says, the fault may lie in ourselves, and by coming to Oz, etc., one becomes able to _understand_ "lower" animals. Thus we have the scene in whichever book it is that shows Toto talking for the first time. (I'm not good with remembering which book has what events.) More What-ifs: What if Ozma were less kind? What if Mombi, the Nomes, etc., were more competent? What if Glinda had an "It's not my problem" attitude toward everything? What if Dorothy ended up in another part of Baumgea? What if Oz retained its life-threatening qualities demonstrated in _TWWoO_? (There are many more I could come up with, but there'll be time later on...) Until then, Jeremy Steadman, kivel99@planetall.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/9619 ICQ# 19222665, AOL Inst Mssgr name kiex or kiex2 "A good example of a parasite? Hmmm, let me think... How about the Eiffel tower?" ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:48:46 -0400 (EDT) From: LuVCHACHI@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-28-98 In a message dated 9/28/98 4:59:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, DaveH47@delphi.com writes: << WI the Wizard had never come to Oz? Dorothy's journey would be boring! WI Dorothy's house missed? hmm.... WI Dorothy had gone with the Wizard in the balloon? She probably would have wound up whereever the wizrd got to....I highly doubt she would have gotten home that way WI There had been no Marvelous Powder of Life? no jack pumpkinhead, no sawhorse WI Billina hadn't been with Dorothy in Ev? hmmm... WI the Wizard had never returned to Oz? well he really didn't add anything by coming back WI there had been no Fountain of Oblivion? oz wouldn't exist b/c the gnome king woud have conquered it>> ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:18:05 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Oz stuff I have posted a picture of Chris Lofven and joy Dunstan on my page. It can be accessed from the filmography or with the file name LOFVENOZ.JPG. Jane: Perhaps you could petition to be IWOC liaison for Robert Halmi, Sr.'s Oz production. :) Does anyone know who I can contact to get the 1998 IWOC calendar that I paid for. I ordered it back in March and never received it. I never did buy 1 1998 calendar, so I've been without one, and I want the artwork, anyway. I think I'm probably the only person who would write a script where someone says "Hey, I've read _Queen Zixi of Ix_! in response to a comment from someone else that seems related to it. Scott ======================== Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! Frances: I've led a pretty boring life compared to yours. Freddy [the neighbor]: Mine was pretty boring, too. I've just got a knack for picking out the interesting bits. --David Williamson _Travelling North_ Act Two Scene Three ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:47:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: Oz stamp Jim and all -- Mike Gessel, who's still "plugging away" at the stamp project has had the folks behind the annual Chittenango Oz celebration express their interest in making this happen through their state representative. It's actually easier to accomplish going through governement channels than trying to build public demand. That avenue appears to be our best bet at this point. I'll ask Mike for suggestions about how interested people can support the project at this point. I suspect it will be a request to ask you senators/representatives to support the plan that the Chittenango-area representative will put forth, when he or she does that. I was personally disheartened when the new stamp series was introduced that is celebrating each decade of the 20th century. It would have been a perfect fit there, and I don't know if it was ever considered. Word from Christine Baum today, the site selection for the KC area theme park is now TBD in February with ground breaking in the summer. Jane Albright ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 01:30:49 -0400 (EDT) From: JOdel@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-28-98 In a message dated 9/28/98 1:59:51 PM, DaveH47@delphi.com writes: >Ruth wrote that RINKITINK may imply <change from a four-legged critter to a two-legged bird.>> That's the only >example of a bird seeming "above" mammals that I could recall, but the >same >passage would imply that sheep are smarter than goats. Baaaa, humbug! My take on the initial goat-to-sheep transformation was that it was a necessary first step of getting Prince Bobo OUT of the form he was confined to by the original enchantment. Basically, this was a fishing expedition to determine whether his shape COULD still be changed. With this in mind one uses as small a step as one can manage, in order to maximise the liklihood of its taking. Good point that if the Wizard had still ruled the EC, Mombi may not have decided to transform Tip into a marble statue at just that point in time (if ever) and that he may not have run away. In that case, since Ozma would not have been restored, would the land of Oz still have aging and death, since there seems to be a strong partiality toward the theory that Ozians only became imortal after Ozma's accention to the throne? ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:15:24 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: color-plated Oz Earlier I quoted a passage from Michael Patrick Hearn's BUGLE article "An Illustrator's Illustrator": Neill had little control over his pictures once they reached Reilly & Britton. He did not even color the color plates himself in most of the books; the printers generally took care of that by painting proofs of a dozen line drawings themselves. Neill did not always indicate which ones should be used, but left that decision to Reilly & Britton. In response Robin Olderman wrote: <> Only Hearn could say for sure, but I think his antecedent for "which ones" is "line drawings," meaning indeed that sometimes Neill didn't state which illustrations he meant for the color plates. On the other hand, Robin, your observation may hold a clue to how Neill and his colorizers worked together. If Neill drew his outlines for color plates in a noticeably different style from his full-page b/w illustrations, he may have trusted Reilly & Lee's printers to pick them out, especially after years of working together. In other words, Neill, though <>, nevertheless could have managed to <>. Hearn doesn't quote, and I don't think anyone's pointed out, an instance in which Neill complained that the wrong drawing was chosen for colorization, or suggested that another be used instead. That sort of evidence would be decisive. It would be at least indicative if there were a pattern of when Neill left no statements about color plates: if that happened more often on later books, or books in which (as Ruth Berman pointed out) the color plates and b/w illustrations show the same scenes, or books like JACK PUMPKINHEAD in which most of the full-page b/w drawings are two-page spreads, then we might infer Neill said nothing about plate choices because he felt he didn't have to. Good point, Dave Hulan, about the Evian sparrow speaking in MAGIC. It doesn't explain Nana's surprise at Billina, but it's another dot on the graph to account for. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:15:42 +0000 (GMT) From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-28-98 J.L.: >As for the Lonesome Duck, it seems clearly to be a "Magician Duck," in >Cap'n Bill's words; if I were an ordinary bird, I sure wouldn't take its >example to mean I could alight on that island. Maybe not, but Dorothy says, "Then you can transform Trot and Cap'n Bill into birds or bumblebees, and they can fly away to the other shore." Of course, Dorothy isn't an expert on magic, and the Wizard actually transformed them into bumblebees so we don't know for sure whether birds would have been rooted or not, but to the extent that there's any data that's a clue that birds don't take root. The Wizard doesn't contradict her, anyhow. Robin: I've heard about Gardner's new Oz book forthcoming from St. Martin's for a year or so now in various places, so I think it's a new novel and not a new edition of Baum's _Queer Visitors_ with a Gardner intro. Scott H.: Very few works of fantasy are sold as mainstream, and those almost invariably by authors who are well-established already. When you put fantasy elements into a first novel you're probably not going to sell it as anything but fantasy. >I'd like to try again, but unfortunately, I don't have access to _Literary >Marketplace_ for information on another agent. You don't have a public library? Dave: Some interesting What Ifs you suggest. But I think most of them either don't affect much more than one story, or at most a few characters (the absence of the Powder of Life, for instance, would mean no Jack Pumpkinhead or Sawhorse or Glass Cat or Patchwork Girl, but none of them really had a major impact on Ozian history that I can think of), or would leave Oz so completely different that speculation is pointless. Some comments on some of them: >WI the Wizard had never come to Oz? This is one that would make so much difference that speculation is almost impossible. >WI Reera took an interest in outside affairs? Probably wouldn't make a lot of difference if her interest was aroused after Ozma's accession; if before, then she probably would have ousted Mombi early on and Queen Orin would never have been transformed. A Reera who takes an interest in outside affairs would be an adequate substitute GWN. >WI Dorothy's house missed? >WI the WWW had encountered Singra's water-nymph and been rendered H2O-proof? Either of these would probably have ended up with Dorothy enslaved more or less permanently; the result would be more or less the same as if Dorothy had never come to Oz at all. >WI Dorothy had gone with the Wizard in the balloon? I don't see that this would have had any effect other than shortening the first Oz book; everything affecting Ozian history that happened after the Wizard left Oz would probably have happened about the same anyhow. The Cowardly Lion might have stayed in the EC, but he ended up back there shortly in any case. Possibly his presence as a defender of the Scarecrow would have short-circuited Jinjur's revolt. I'm sure Glinda would have contrived to get the Golden Cap somehow if Dorothy had left it in the EC. It might make a difference that Dorothy still had the silver shoes when she got back to Kansas - if they didn't disappear when she left Oz even though it wasn't done using their power. But since we know the Wizard returned safely to America, the ultimate outcome would also have brought Dorothy safely back to America as well, and that was the only historically important thing that happened after the Wizard left. >WI Billina hadn't been with Dorothy in Ev? Dorothy would either have been captured by the Wheelers or starved, since Billina found the key that let her gain Tik-tok as an ally. And Ozma and her party would be ornaments in the Nome King's palace, unless Glinda took a hand. >WI the Wizard had never returned to Oz? I don't see a profound effect; a lot of the stories would run differently, but the Wiz isn't a key plot element in any of the critical junctures of Ozian history that I can recall. I'm reasonably sure that given time, Glinda would have solved the mystery of Ozma's disappearance and would have defeated Ugu; it would just have taken longer. >WI there had been no Fountain of Oblivion? Or WI the Nome King's tunnel hadn't just happened to open up in front of it? Oz, and eventually the rest of the world as well, would have been overrun by the Phanfasms. They were so much more powerful than the Growleywogs, Whimsies, and Nomes that the other allies would have been no better off than the Ozites. I think it's time to set a date for discussing _Tin Woodman_. Not one of Baum's better plot lines, but a book with a great deal of information about Oz that isn't to be found elsewhere. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 23:07:44 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz John Bell: Since other countries in the area appear to be magical, it seems to me that the ultimate source of magic is not Lurline's spell. I lean to the Aaron Adelman theory that the whole world is magical, and that the raw magical power flows up into the world. Certain kinds of rock, water, wind, living creatures etc may affect the amount of flow and this level of resistance may vary with time. If so, then animals may or may not have the ability to talk at any time. Lurline's spell affected Oz itself and strengthened the inherent magic already there. Given this, it might seems at first that the underground countries, such as those visited in _Dotwiz_, would be more powerful. If there is a universal magical source in the world of Oz, it may not necessarily originate in the center of the globe, and even if it did, power may not necessarily directly relate to distance. Jack and the Sawhorse would probably still be around regardless of Dorothy's visit. Their creation, which was the result of a magical trade and mischief on the part of Tip, did not seem dependent on the political climate. That was a brilliant point about the situation leading Mombi to propose a "final solution" to Tip. She must have sensed a shift in the winds. She shouldn't have told Tip about her plan in advance, though. However, I'm glad she did. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 01 Oct 98 12:04:27 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things BCF: How about Wednesday, Oct. 14 to start with _Tin Woodman_? LOST PRINCESS: I'll never forget the synopsis for LPOz at the back of one of my early Oz books from the library...It began: "Talk about Button-Bright getting lost; *Ozma* is *almost* as bad!" Is this possibly *the* understatement of all time?? TALKING ANIMALS: I still go along with my own "Babel Fish" theory, in which it was part of Lurline's enchantment that all languages (including those of animals) are understandable to everyone, even visitors from outside...Like other aspects of Lurline's enchantment, I think this has "leaked" into certain other countries... -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave **************************************************************************** Dave Hardenbrook, DaveH47@delphi.com, http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ "I like to define humor as the affectionate communication of insight." -- Leo Rosten, introduction to _Oh K*A*P*L*A*N, My K*A*P*L*A*N_ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, OCTOBER 2 - 5, 1998 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 19:30:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: Survived OK, before more of you e-mail me than have already, please rest assured that I and mine were not flooded out, killed, sodden or otherwise forced to suffer from last night's flooding in Kansas City. I didn't know any of those killed or reported missing, so except for some unwelcome minor streams in the basement, we were quite unaffected. Though it was midtown -- where I live -- that took the worst of it, I'm in a cut-stone, tile-roofed house that's stood defiantly on high ground for just shy of 100 years. We are warm, dry and cosy no matter what nature's dumping all about us. The lightening didn't even wake Joy and I spent most of the time making cinnamon rolls. Thanks for the concern (which I extend to many of you presumptuously) and prayers (many of my friends do that, you know....) Ever thine, Jane ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 20:44:26 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-01-98 Dave wrote: "LOST PRINCESS: >I'll never forget the synopsis for LPOz at the back of one of my early >Oz books from the library...It began: "Talk about Button-Bright getting >lost; *Ozma* is *almost* as bad!" Is this possibly *the* understatement >of all time?? Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe those synopsis in the Reilly & Lee "white cover" books were written by Jack Snow. (What is plural for synopsis anyway?) Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 14:36:10 -0700 (PDT) From: VoVat Quetzalcoatlus Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-01-98 Jeremy: >What if Mombi, the Nomes, etc., were more competent? Well, the Nomes might have managed to conquer Oz and enslave its inhabitants. Then again, if Roquat had been more competent during _Ozma_, the important Ozites might have gained permanent places in his ornament collection, and he wouldn't have even gotten the idea to conquer Oz. After all, he had no intention of conquering Ev, even though he had the royal family in his power. >What if Glinda had an "It's not my problem" attitude toward > everything? She played such a large part in Ozian history that this is really too important a change to even begin speculating. Ozma might well never have taken the throne, though. Without Glinda's interference, Mombi could easily have used Jinjur's queenship to gain more power for herself. >What if Dorothy ended up in another part of Baumgea? She would have had different adventures, for one thing. The impact on Oz would probably have been similar to what would have happened if she had not been caught in the tornado at all. >What if Oz retained its life-threatening qualities demonstrated in > _TWWoO_? Most of the meat characters would probably be dead by now. LuVCHACHI: > WI there had been no Fountain of Oblivion? oz wouldn't exist b/c the >gnome >king woud have conquered it>> I don't know about that. Ozma still had the Magic Belt, and she could have used it to transform or transport the invaders. David: >>WI there had been no Fountain of Oblivion? >Or WI the Nome King's tunnel hadn't just happened to open up in front >of >it? Oz, and eventually the rest of the world as well, would have >been >overrun by the Phanfasms. They were so much more powerful than the >Growleywogs, Whimsies, and Nomes that the other allies would have >been no >better off than the Ozites. True. I already mentioned that Ozma could have used the Belt against the invaders, but the Phanfasms might have been powerful or crafty enough to resist its magic. Their memory loss left them in a much more vulnerable state than usual. Nathan Mulac DeHoff ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 01:24:55 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Jeremy: I think the weight of the evidence is against the effect being attributed to us being able to understand animals. If so, we would have heard Toto's barks as words from the begining, but he instead waited and chose to speak in our language at a specific time. And now, to gripe about the "Burzo-centric" theory :-) It seems to me that the underlying assumption here is that fairy magic is the ultimate magical power in the Universe. That is, that all magic in the world has its source with Lurline and her band. It is far more likely that magic is everywhere and fairies just use one application of it. There is a great deal of magic in the magical world, and most of it does not seem to derive from the fairies. Oz itself was probably magical before Lurliens enchantement, although the enchantment certainly enhanced and magnified that inherent nature, so that Oz is more magical and special than any other land. Joyce: If the WIzard was still on the throne (and assuming that Tip never became Ozma), aging and death may or may not have come about. Many people (including myself) seem to think that non-aging and deathlessness was part of Lurline's original plan, and that it would become fully realized when Ozma ascended the throne. The transformation to Tip threw the plan out of kilter, so that this situation did not come about fully until a few years after Ozma's ascension. IMHO, the full effects of Lurline's spell would have been realized even if Ozma had remained Tip, although it may have taken much longer. Dave: I remember that line in LPoZ. After I read the thing, I was a little upset at it, since it Ozma did not get "lost" through her own absent-mindedness, but was kidnapped. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 16:22:19 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-01-98 Isle of Phreex: Still say it sounds like a crazy sort of place to me . . . Sale of fantasy works: It's too bad that, as David says, few fantasy novels are called fantasy novels when an author starts out. I see his point, but just don't like it . . . <<>WI Dorothy had gone with the Wizard in the balloon? I don't see that this would have had any effect other than shortening the first Oz book; everything affecting Ozian history that happened after the Wizard left Oz would probably have happened about the same anyhow. The Cowardly Lion might have stayed in the EC, but he ended up back there shortly in any case. Possibly his presence as a defender of the Scarecrow would have short-circuited Jinjur's revolt. I'm sure Glinda would have contrived to get the Golden Cap somehow if Dorothy had left it in the EC. It might make a difference that Dorothy still had the silver shoes when she got back to Kansas - if they didn't disappear when she left Oz even though it wasn't done using their power. But since we know the Wizard returned safely to America, the ultimate outcome would also have brought Dorothy safely back to America as well, and that was the only historically important thing that happened after the Wizard left.>> So in other words it doesn't make much difference at all...Hmm...Of course, how we're answering many of these questions expresses that as well . . . Interesting. POssibly because we know how it really is and simply believe it'd all fall into place pretty much like that anyway. (Except for Dorothy coming to Oz, of course--now that would have serious consequences.) Earnestly, Jeremy Steadman, Royal Historian of Oz kivel99@planetall.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/9619 ICQ# 19222665, AOL Inst Mssgr name kiex or kiex2 "A good example of a parasite? Hmmm, let me think... How about the Eiffel tower?" ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 21:30:40 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: Oz and Mombi Bruce Gray wrote: <> I see different levels of themes in Baum's work, some of them seemingly deliberate (like loss and return) and some probably unconscious but reflecting his preoccupations (as I'll mention when we discuss TIN WOODMAN). Because Baum wasn't a theme-driven storyteller, nor the most consistent and careful writer in world literature, his deliberate themes are often as hard to pick out (if they exist) as the latter type. I find looking for themes on rereading to be useful for locating threads that unify the many odd episodes of a typical Oz book's plot, or make inconsistencies a little more understandable, or distinguish one adventure from another. About the treacherous island in MAGIC and whether it traps bees, Dave Hulan wrote: <> When I first read and reread MAGIC, I puzzled about why the bees weren't stuck to the island just as much as Trot and Cap'n Bill were. The answer I came up with, and in physics class later got the vocabulary for, is that THAT WORD transforms people around their centers of mass, or possibly around their centers of intellect (heads). Thus, after becoming much smaller creatures, Trot and the old sailor are located a coupla feet in the air. And since bees can fly, they don't plummet to the ground and get stuck again. What if the Wizard had transformed the pair into elephants or blue whales, we might ask? This theory hypothesizes they'd be nearly half-buried in the soil, their original centers of mass/intellect having been pushed up by the sudden growth of their lower bodies. Jeremy Steadman asked: <> As opposed to only certain things (like Jinxland before Trot arrived)? To the question, "What if Billina hadn't been with Dorothy in Ev?" Dave Hulan wrote: <> There's never firm evidence for what *else* might have happened, but ILTT our Dorothy wouldn't just roll over before the Wheelers. With more time, she may well have found the key to Tik-Tok's cave herself. She's also resourceful and plucky enough to try sneaking out at night, to call passing animals for help, or even to agree reluctantly to serve the Wheelers and soon realize they couldn't do much to her. Whether Dorothy would have met up with Ozma in that circumstance is more dubious. But if we assume she would and (as OZMA shows) she would save herself and the littlest prince of Ev from Roquat, ILTT further that Dorothy would then have tried to rescue Ozma and her followers with the help of the surviving animals, Glinda, and other allies she made (Jinnicky? Bitty Bit?). That mission, against a much more powerful foe than the Wheelers, would have a much lower chance of succeeding, of course. Dorothy might be most successful if Roquat were to toss her into the Hollow Tube! Didn't OZIANA publish a story many years back about the most obvious "what if?" in Oz: What if Dorothy, the Wizard, Zeb, et al. had taken the *other* tunnel from the Dragonettes' cave? I recall it as an attempt to create a more satisfying end to their journey through the underworld. Tyler Jones wrote: <> LAND has some clues that Mombi lay low as a magician until just before the start of the book. Baum at first says Mombi's merely a wizardess and not a witch, though later she's powerful enough to give Glinda [and the Sawhorse] a good run. Mombi also feels compelled to tell Tip she's going grocery-shopping when she's visiting the crooked magician, and it's ambiguous whether she meant to visit him and trade. Perhaps not until she comes back from that trip does Mombi feel like her old witchy self again. Tyler Jones wrote: <> I think this is supervillain mistake #4, right after "Don't make your schemes needlessly complex and your murder machines worthy of Rube Goldberg," and right before, "When you finally have the hero in your clutches, don't take a few more moments to gloat." J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 23:26:45 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-01-98 Re: VISITORS FROM OZ If I haven't mentioned it before, I work at a Barnes & Noble subsidiary (Bookstop), and today in the receiving room I found--lo and behold--Martin Gardner's new book, _Visitors from Oz: The Wild Adventures of Dorothy, the Scarecrow, and the Tin Woodman_. I've already read the first couple chapters, and, well, hmmm, I'm not sure it's quite the Oz I know and love. I'll continue to read, however, and in the meantime I shall transcribe the blurb from the dust jacket for you guys. Depending on your opinion of how much a dust jacket really reveals, this may constitute a spoiler, so I'll call it a *****POSSIBLE SPOILER FOR VISITORS FROM OZ BY MARTIN GARDNER******* "Ever since _The Wizard of Oz_ was first published in 1900, Dorothy and her companions have captured the imaginations of Americans, both young and old. Generations of readers raised on L. Frank Baum's incredible Oz books, and on books by his worthy successors, will be amazed and entranced by Martin Gardner's exciting account of further adventures of Dorothy, the Scarecrow, and the Tin Woodman in the United States. Indeed, by placing the story in Manhattan of the late 1990s, with cameo appearances by Rudy Giulani, Oprah Winfrey, and Geraldo Rivera, Gardner has for the first time ingeniously adapted Baum's immortal characters to an American setting. [Transcriber's aside: How soon we forget this book's own namesake!!!] "While a century's worth of readers has enjoyed the Oz series, it is not generally known that in Baum's fifth Oz book, Ozma teleported Dorothy and her uncle permanently to Oz. Nor is it known that Glinda moved Oz to a parallel world. In Gardner's wild novel, Dorothy and her faithful friends visit several towns in Oz--including Wonderland, a new Mount Olympus, and Ballville--before they arrive in New York's Central Park by way of a mathematical curiosity called a Klein Bottle. "The purpose of their visit to Earth is to publicize a new musical film about Oz. But plans go awry when two evil mobsters, hired by a wicked rival movie producer, try to kill Dorothy and her companions. In their desperate attempts to flee these villains, Dorothy, the Scarecrow, and the Tin Woodman find themselves in a series of precarious predicaments across New York City. Combining vivid suspense with a host of mathematical riddles and technological pyrotechnics, Martin Gardner has created a new fable in the finest traditions of L. Frank Baum that celebrates the power of the imagination and the lure of an ageless heroine named Dorothy at the turn of a new century. "A jewel of a story, _Visitors from Oz_ will bedazzle children and adults alike for decades to come." *******END POSSIBLE SPOILER************* I shall leave the fun of picking out the errors and inconsistencies in the preceding passage to the individual Digester. Sigh. Perhaps I'll change my tune as I read more. Atticus * * * "...[T]here is something else: the faith of those despised and endangered that they are not merely the sum of damages done to them." Visit my webpage at http://members.aol.com/atty993 ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 12:52:34 -0500 From: Lana Barton Subject: wizard of oz dinisewedge@hotmail.com, a0028875@airmail.net, wonderwench@iname.com, tbear_kats@hotmail.com, jsteadman@loki.berry.edu, vclements@clntraining.com, webmaster@thegarden.com, angel_sunset@hotmail.com, buddyebsen@phantoms.com, birkhard@email.uc.edu, broadway_starzoo@yahoo.com, dian4@aol.com, teddyn13@geocities.com, ston0076@tc.umn.edu, mmeara@kcd.com, blueboy103@aol.com, janners4@geocities.com, captainNemo@rica.net, tammy@lairgauche.com, hqc94@yahoo.com, lullabyleague@hotmail.com, dorothyv@webtv.net, wizozfan@hotmail.com, jergibbs@on-ramp.ior.com, leslie_adcock@hotmail.com, rainbowz@delta.com, fairystar69@gurlmail.com, daveh47@delphi.com, ldweisberg@geocities.com, wizardofoz@bigfoot.com, lambertclay@coastalnet.com Visit my site! I have a cool link that will take you to a site in Kansas that sells Wizard of Oz water globes, t-shirts, pewter collectibles, etc....... While you are there , please sign my guestbook! Lana (toto's World) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 23:34:25 +0000 (GMT) From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-01-98 Meghan: > WI Dorothy had gone with the Wizard in the balloon? She probably would have >wound up whereever the wizrd got to....I highly doubt she would have gotten >home that way The Wizard got back to the US somehow, since he was there at the start of _DotWiz_. If Dorothy had been with him he would presumably have taken care of her during the course of whatever adventures he had on the way, and she'd have ended up back in Kansas eventually. Probably not nearly as soon as she did in _Wizard_, though. In fact, the story of that adventure might be an interesting "alternate Oz" non-fantasy story. It might even be salable in the mainstream market if it were well-enough done, since the balloon going off without Dorothy is in the movie and would therefore be known to most of the general public and not just readers of the books. Scott H.: >Does anyone know who I can contact to get the 1998 IWOC calendar that I >paid for. I ordered it back in March and never received it. I never did >buy 1 1998 calendar, so I've been without one, and I want the artwork, >anyway. Once you see it I'm not sure you'll want the artwork; it's mostly pretty awful. I don't know who you should contact about it, but somebody on the Digest will probably tell you. Joyce: >Good point that if the Wizard had still ruled the EC, Mombi may not have >decided to transform Tip into a marble statue at just that point in time (if >ever) and that he may not have run away. In that case, since Ozma would not >have been restored, would the land of Oz still have aging and death, since >there seems to be a strong partiality toward the theory that Ozians only >became imortal after Ozma's accention to the throne? It seems likely that Oz would have continued to have aging and death as long as the Wizard lived, but because of that he'd presumably have died after another decade or two. Of course, Mombi might have died as well; while Glinda seems to have always been immortal, there's no evidence I can recall that the other Ozian witches were at the time of _Wizard_. Tyler: I agree that Lurline's spell isn't the ultimate source of magic. It gave Oz some characteristics that are different from the other magical lands around it, but Oz was almost certainly a magical land even before the spell. It isn't as magical as Mo even during Ozma's reign, as far as that goes. >Jack and the Sawhorse would probably still be around regardless of >Dorothy's visit. Their creation, which was the result of a magical trade >and mischief on the part of Tip, did not seem dependent on the political >climate. Jack, yes, but the Sawhorse's coming to life depended on Tip's running away, and that was probably a function of the political climate. >She >shouldn't have told Tip about her plan in advance, though. However, I'm >glad she did. But like many villains (fictional ones, anyhow), Mombi enjoyed the psychological torture of telling a potential victim of the bad things that are going to happen to him. It's one of the greatest advantages good characters have over villains. I'm not sure it ever happens in reality, though. Dave: >BCF: >How about Wednesday, Oct. 14 to start with _Tin Woodman_? Fine with me. >I still go along with my own "Babel Fish" theory, in which it was part >of Lurline's enchantment that all languages (including those of animals) >are understandable to everyone, even visitors from outside...Like other >aspects of Lurline's enchantment, I think this has "leaked" into certain >other countries... I like most of the theory, but I doubt if it was part of Lurline's enchantment. There are too many talking animals too far from Oz, and too many non-talking animals too close to Oz, for me to be comfortable with the idea of leakage from an Oz-centered spell. I think the ability to understand all languages is part of the overall magic of Nonestica, but a part that only comes into effect in areas where the concentration of the magic is relatively high. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 14:01:18 -0400 (EDT) From: "James R. Whitcomb" Subject: SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT Re: Jim's Wizard of Oz Website Hello Oz fans, friends & "family": Great news! My new pages are finished with five weeks to spare before my website's "official" 2nd anniversary!!! I have created four new pages for you to enjoy! All pages can be accessed from my index page; the address is at the bottom of this email. --The first one is a tribute to my favorite Oz character featuring Margaret Hamilton as Miss Gulch and the Wicked Witch of the West. I hope you enjoy this page as much as I did creating it! --Next, with the re-release of MGM's classic film, The Wizard of Oz, just on the horizon, I created two pages which are direct tie-ins to the film. The first is a timeline which chronicles significant events that led to the making of this classic film starting from 1924 when it was just an idea to 1939 when it was first released in theatres. In addition, this page includes scenes that were cut from the final version of the film and awards that "The Wizard of Oz" has won over the years. I must acknowledge a "special" thank you to Jane Albright for allowing me to use some of the elements from "The Oz Chronology" which is on the International Wizard of Oz Club Website. --My third page contains a listing of the various accidents and bloopers that resulted, respectively, during and after the making of "The Wizard of Oz". --Lastly, but certainly not least, I have created a THANK YOU! page highlighting some "special" things that have happened to me during the past year as a result of visitors to my website, including those folks who have given my website "special" recognition. What's next?? Well, who knows! I have lots of ideas for new pages. Some are just that, "ideas", while others are already in progress. The "Oz mouseovers" seemed to be a great hit, so I can promise you that there will be more of them to come, along with a lot of other surprises. As always, Ozzy wishes and the best to you! Jim Whitcomb of ... Jim's "Wizard of Oz" Website URL: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/6396/ **PLEASE NOTE: If you received this email it's because you are a Wizard of Oz fan or a regular visitor to my website. If you don't want to receive these updates in the future, please email me. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 19:07:27 -0400 (EDT) From: TotoArf@aol.com Subject: Cheap Oz books I have placed several lots of Oz books on eBay. You can bid on them if you want to. Hehe. Our eBay identity is princessozma. Check it out. eBay View About Me for princessozma ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 20:04:34 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Back from Oahu. It wasn't a vacation as some of you assumed. I have friends, a couple, who have both had strokes. They need a lot of help as neither can drive or do a lot of other things. Bad things happen to good people as we get older. I had 65 email messages, two feet of mail and 14 papers when I got home. Now I'm trying to catch up with you all. Oh, no I didn't find Oz but I found some great rainbows. Scott - I was sorry to see you so crushed by a single rejection. I read somewhere that Tom Clancy's first effort was rejected some 50 times before he got it published. If at first...... There, caught up again..... Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 17:02:48 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-01-98 MORE ON _VISITORS FROM OZ_ I've now finished reading Martin Gardner's new book. I don't want to call it a bad book, but it's not what I consider a good Oz book. To explain myself, I'll list what I found to be questionable elements for a book about Oz. None of them, in my view, give away enough of the plot to spoil any major plot revelations, but I'll go ahead and designate these as ********POSSIBLE SPOILERS***************** 1) Oz has telephones and E-mail. Perhaps not SO out there, but still... 2) Gardner claims that in _The Emerald City of Oz_, Glinda moved Oz to a parallel universe rather than simply making it invisible to outsiders. Further, neither the Magic Belt nor any other implement can transport people or objects from the Great Outside World to Oz or vice versa. 3) The Sawhorse, rather than being simply gruff, acts like a REAL a**hole. 4) The Scarecrow makes a couple of uncharacteristically bitchy and sarcastic comments. 5) The Tin Woodman doesn't "give a tinker's damn" and asserts that he would "never harm any of God's living creatures." Nick Chopper finds religion? 6) Characters frequently refer to events as "such-and-such that Baum wrote about in Such-and-Such of Oz" rather than as historical events they experienced. It sounds VERY weird and awkward. 7) Several characters, particularly Ku-Klip, really get on soapboxes when talking about the U.S. 8) Violence galore! Here are some interesting quotations: "My good friend Iris, the rainbow goddess, lost all her powers completely. They were taken over by that dancing imposter Polychrome. If I ever get my hands on her, I'll bash her pretty face." Dorothy to an assailant in Central Park: "Now," said Dorothy with a grim smile, her blue eyes flashing, "it's *my* turn to cut *your* throat!" Dorothy and the hijacker: "Before [the pilot] had a chance to grab the hijacker, Dorothy punched Abdul in the stomach... Dorothy then raised a knee to bang the man under his chin. Abdul howled with pain." 9) Page 57 features the most unabashedly blatant self-advertisement (for two of Gardner's books) that I've ever seen in a novel. 10) Dorothy, the Scarecrow, and the Tin Woodman appear on Oprah and Geraldo and meet NYC mayor Rudolph Giulani. 11) There are hit men out to get Dorothy and Co. 12) The book claims that Dorothy was 17 years old when she went to Oz to live and that she has "several boyfriends." It also states that the events in _Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz_ occurred before those in _Ozma of Oz_. Gardner seems to ignore the aging phenomenon that Dorothy experienced during her brief return to America in _The Lost King of Oz_. 13) The Tin Woodman meets a teenage hooker. 14) "I assume," said Dorothy, "there will be plenty of passionate love scenes." ******END POSSIBLE SPOILERS************* I find that the book lacks "magic," and certainly innocence. I think that's the best way to sum it up. But, as you know, this is simply my opinion. Regretfully, Atticus * * * "...[T]here is something else: the faith of those despised and endangered that they are not merely the sum of damages done to them." Visit my webpage at http://members.aol.com/atty993 ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 05 Oct 98 16:00:13 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things DOROTHY: In what book(s) does Dorothy temporarily ascend the throne in Ozma's abscence? GARDNER'S BOOK: Thanks for the review Atticus! Compared to what you describe, my "oh-so-heretical" Oz writings are pinnacles of straight-laced orthodoxy... FINAL THOUGHT ON THE "LOST PRINCESS" (AND THE "LOST KING") OF OZ: Jellia: To lose one Ozian royal can be said to be a tragedy; to lose both looks like carelessness! :) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave **************************************************************************** Dave Hardenbrook, DaveH47@delphi.com, http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ "I like to define humor as the affectionate communication of insight." -- Leo Rosten, introduction to _Oh K*A*P*L*A*N, My K*A*P*L*A*N_ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, OCTOBER 6 - 8, 1998 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 21:12:14 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-05-98 SCOTT OLSEN: >Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe those synopsis in the Reilly >& Lee "white cover" books were written by Jack Snow. > >(What is plural for synopsis anyway?) You're right; he wrote them for _Who's Who in Oz_. (The plural is synopses.) DAVE HARDENBROOK: >In what book(s) does Dorothy temporarily ascend the throne in Ozma's >abscence? _Magical Mimics_ is the only one I recall offhand. If we're talking movies, though, she comes kinda close at the end of _Return to Oz_. * * * "...[T]here is something else: the faith of those despised and endangered that they are not merely the sum of damages done to them." Visit my webpage at http://members.aol.com/atty993 ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 23:06:37 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Scott: I'll echo Bear's statement: Don't give up. Somebody out there will publish your work. I paraphrase from the movie _Titanic_ "'Something' Picasso? I doubt he'll ever amount to anything". Atticus: Thanks for the warning for Gardeners book, but I think I'll get the thing anyway, and put it right between Farmer and Laumer, so that when the lightning strikes, it will have only one place to hit :-) Dave: If I remember correctly, Ozma let Dorothy rule for a short time while she went off to some sort of Fairy Conference. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 09:09:54 -0700 From: Steve Teller Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-05-98 Cc: "Dave L. Hardenbrook" > > > (What is plural for synopsis anyway?) Synopses. > Scott Olsen In light of Atticus' "warning" concerning Martin Gardner's VISITORS FROM OZ I would like to mention that Martin Gardner was one of the 16 founding members of IWOC (Ruth Berman was another, as was Fred Meyer); he wrote the introductions to many of the Dover editions of Baum's books, and he was a long time participant in the struggle against the librarians and religious fanatics who have tried to remove Baum and Oz from public libraries. His credentials as an Oz expert are very strong. > From: David Hulan > Scott H.: > >Does anyone know who I can contact to get the 1998 IWOC calendar that I > >paid for. I ordered it back in March and never received it. I never did > >buy 1 1998 calendar, so I've been without one, and I want the artwork, > >anyway. > > Once you see it I'm not sure you'll want the artwork; it's mostly pretty > awful. I don't know who you should contact about it, but somebody on the > Digest will probably tell you. > This is not the fault of Chris Dulabone who edited the calendar. He has had an increasingly difficult time getting people to contribute art work for it. BTW: Is it the 1998 calendar that is wanted or the 1999 calendar which is also available. Chris will not be doing the one for 2000. > >How about Wednesday, Oct. 14 to start with _Tin Woodman_? > > Fine with me. It cannot be too soon for me. > ====================================== > Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 19:07:27 -0400 (EDT) > From: TotoArf@aol.com > Subject: Cheap Oz books > > I have placed several lots of Oz books on eBay. You can bid on them if you > want to. Hehe. Our eBay identity is princessozma. Check it out. > eBay View About Me for > princessozma > Melody Grandy also has a number of items on eBay, her identity is "Micromegas." > 1I find that the book lacks "magic," and certainly innocence. I think > that's the best way to sum it up. But, as you know, this is simply my > opinion. > It may be true that Gardner's book lacks innocence, but this is true about most of the "Oz books" that are written for adult audiences. Is it in a class with WAS, BARNSTORMER, DOROTHY--RETURN TO OZ or WICKED? > Regretfully, > Atticus > * * * > > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > DOROTHY: > In what book(s) does Dorothy temporarily ascend the throne in Ozma's > abscence? > Chiefly in MAGICAL MIMICS. > GARDNER'S BOOK: > Thanks for the review Atticus! Compared to what you describe, my > "oh-so-heretical" Oz writings are pinnacles of straight-laced orthodoxy... Beware of mirrors, they may only reflect what you want to see. > FINAL THOUGHT ON THE "LOST PRINCESS" (AND THE "LOST KING") OF OZ: > > Jellia: To lose one Ozian royal can be said to be a tragedy; to lose > both looks like carelessness! :) Thank you Lady Bracknell! Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 12:10:24 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: Oz and other fairylands Welcome back, Bear. I hope your trip was pleasant enough even if it wasn't for pleasure. Two passages from TIN WOODMAN have some bearing on our discussion of the birds and the beasts, so I'll bring them up now. First, to turn Polychrome back from canary to fairy, Ozma goes through the steps of dove, speckled hen, rabbit, and fawn. If RINKITINK implies that mammals are further from hominids than birds, this sequence says mammals are closer to fairies than either birds or we are. I don't think that holds up to how Baum portrayed animals, fairies, and humans elsewhere. These transformation sequences don't seem to be reliable indicators. Second, Baum gives us this clue about animal language on page 102: The Owl and the Canary found they could converse together in the bird language, which neither the Giantess nor the Bear nor the Monkey could understand; so at times they twittered away to each other. Several interesting implications here. First, a tin man and a rainbow fairy put in avian bodies instinctually know bird-speak; they don't have to learn it. Second, even cross-species speech can sound like twittering to other animals outside the same order. And if birds don't all speak a single language, they at least share a common jargon--no doubt some form of pigeon. Scott Olson wrote: <> Those synopses [all Greek to us!] indeed first appeared in Snow's WHO'S WHO. After reading the 14 summaries in some "white cover" editions, I was pleased to find more in that volume. I don't remember their plot details, however, as much as Snow's judgments (or what he called fans' judgments) of the books' relative quality or popularity. Tyler Jones wrote about the "Burzo-centric" theory: <> Good points. In cavilling with the "Ozocentric" view, my objection is to assuming that since animals speak in Oz, the ability of animals to speak elsewhere must relate to Oz; since Ozians are immortal (the specific spell Lurline laid on the country), any lengthy lives outside Oz must relate to Oz; and perhaps even that Glinda extended her concealment spell past Oz's borders. As you and Dave Hulan have pointed out, countries like Mo come by magic like or even more fantastic than Oz's independently. And the latter two spells above were laid on Oz in distinction to its neighbors. Fairies, in Baum's broader use of the term, do seem crucial to his presentation of magic, however. His term "fairyland" for any land in which magic occurs implies that fairies are the main source or conduit of such power. But by fairies he doesn't just mean gauze-swathed females dancing in forests like Burzee; he also uses the term for the larger set of magical immortals. There are hints in ROAD and MAGIC KEY that the same forces and phenomena manifest themselves in our own countries, simply in less anthropomorphic forms. Does that mean the magic of Oz' continent and surrounding islands necessarily derives from Burzee? No, especially for the magic that occurs without the willful intervention of a character in the books. But when on that continent a major change seems to occur, or a spell had to be cast, Burzee seems to be the first place we should seek an explanation. That's where the immortals in SANTA CLAUS meet. We know from TIN WOODMAN and MAGICAL MIMICS that Lurline's band is active all over the continent. There are other concentrations of power, most notably on the sea floor and on the opposite side of the globe, but they'd be further down my list of suspects. Dave Hulan wrote: <> ...assuming the added weight of Dorothy and Toto didn't cause an insurmountable difference in the flight of the hot-air balloon. Thank you, Atticus, for your review of Martin Gardner's take on (or take off of) Oz. He does seem to be writing more in the Philip Jose Farmer mode than penning a sequel that fits the series. Unlike some other "dark Oz" writers, however, Gardner also seems to be making an effort to steer his readers toward the real books by naming them. He also seems to be pulling Wonderland into Oz, uniting two of his literary interests. *** SPOILER ALERT *** You listed these among the deviations from the Oz we know: <<3) The Sawhorse, rather than being simply gruff, acts like a REAL a**hole.>> You're right; he should just act like a knothole. <<5) The Tin Woodman doesn't "give a tinker's damn">> Actually, I find this pun rather funny. <> When Baum's Dorothy faced the prospect of throat-cutting, she confined herself to saying, "No, I b'lieve you won't!" J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 12:27:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: (fwd) WTD: Wizard of OZ CARTOON EPISODES (fwd) From: psydavid@aol.com (PsyDavid) Am looking for episodes of Wizard of Oz Cartoon series...-please email me at PsyDavid@aol.com ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 10:09:29 -0700 (PDT) From: VoVat Quetzalcoatlus Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-05-98 J. L. Bell: > Didn't OZIANA publish a story many years back about the most >obvious >"what if?" in Oz: What if Dorothy, the Wizard, Zeb, et al. had taken >the >*other* tunnel from the Dragonettes' cave? I recall it as an attempt >to >create a more satisfying end to their journey through the underworld. I think this was in Oziana back in the seventies. I've seen the issue before, but I don't own it, and I've only glanced at the story. Tip and Gilo do take the other tunnel in _Disenchanted Princess_, though. Atticus: >8) Violence galore! Here are some interesting quotations: > >"My good friend Iris, the rainbow goddess, lost all her powers >completely. >They were taken over by that dancing imposter Polychrome. If I ever >get my >hands on her, I'll bash her pretty face." Well, this isn't all that much worse than Roquat sending Crinkle to the slicing machine, or Wag wanting to pound Ruggedo's curly toes in. >Dorothy to an assailant in Central Park: "Now," said Dorothy with a >grim >smile, her blue eyes flashing, "it's *my* turn to cut *your* throat!" This, on the other hand, seems to be ridiculously out of character (at least for the Dorothy I've grown to know and love). I mean, you can expect violence from a Nome or a Greek deity, but from Dorothy? >11) There are hit men out to get Dorothy and Co. Well, there were winged monkeys out to get them in _Wizard_. I guess that's not exactly the same thing, but the monkeys were ordered to destroy everyone but the Lion. Overall, I'd say that the book doesn't really sound all that Ozzy. If it can help to get some publicity for the FF, though, that would be a good thing. Dave: >DOROTHY: >In what book(s) does Dorothy temporarily ascend the throne in Ozma's >abscence? Well, _Magical Mimics_ comes to mind. Nathan Mulac DeHoff ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 13:53:10 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-05-98 Bear: I would hardly describe my rejection as making me feel "crushed." I was just making fun of the rejection letter that I got and reading between the lines, coupled with stating the fact that I don't know of another agent, because I don't have access to literary marketplace, and the fact that I don't like the idea of having my serious literature consigned to the fantasy shelf. Scott P.S.: I'm working on a film script that has a Kalidah in it at one point, but I don't think I should put it on the list of incomplete films, do you? It's not in Oz at any point. ============================================================================ ==== Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! Frances: I've led a pretty boring life compared to yours. Freddy [the neighbor]: Mine was pretty boring, too. I've just got a knack for picking out the interesting bits. --David Williamson _Travelling North_ Act Two Scene Three ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 15:06:43 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-05-98 Scott O.: Pluaral of synopsis is "synopses." ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 14:14:21 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz All: The Ozzy Digest for September 98 has finally been archived and is available on my website. http://tyler1.apprentice.com Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 19:39:25 -0400 (EDT) From: LuVCHACHI@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-05-98 <> hmm...true true ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 20:54:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Orange5193@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-05-98 In a message dated 98-10-05 20:43:22 EDT, you write: << (What is plural for synopsis anyway?) Scott Olsen >> Synopses, if I'm not mistaken. James Doyle Dorothy: Can't you walk? Scarecrow: No, but I'll take steps to learn. (The Wizard of Oz, Act I) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 07:59:57 -0400 From: "Earl C. Abbe" Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission - Burton Oz TV Series Sorry if this is old news -- I have not been able to read my e-mail for a couple months. My son kenneth pointed out this in http://www.mania.com/buzz/ Tim Burton Visualizes Oz Tim Burton has agreed to exec-produce a syndicated TV series set in Oz, the legendary world of the stories by L. Frank Baum. The live-action series, slated for fall 1999, will center on some of the lesser-known characters from the 40-odd Oz books and is said to have an extensive special effects budget. Source: Variety I then found this by searching in http://www.variety.com Burton travels to syndie 'Oz' for Col TriStar TV By CYNTHIA LITTLETON, October 7, 1998 Filmmaker Tim Burton has inked a deal with Columbia TriStar TV Distribution to exec produce "Lost in Oz," a big-budget syndie drama series derived from the works of "Wizard of Oz" author L. Frank Baum. The pact with a hyphenate of Burton’s stature is a coup for CTTD and emblematic of a successful push over the past 18 months to broaden the division’s scope under the direction of Russ Krasnoff, exec VP of programming. "We are lucky to have the resources to get involved in projects with the type of talents that normally don’t do television," Krasnoff said of Burton, the director of "Batman," "Beetlejuice," "Edward Scissorhands" and "Ed Wood," among others. Passion projects "We want to be the place where really talented people like Tim Burton bring their passion projects," Krasnoff said. Burton sought to bring the "Lost in Oz" project life as a firstrun syndie property to avoid the potential for creative interference by network execs and to clinch a full season commitment upfront. Burton’s deal with CTTD was brokered by William Morris Agency’s Mike Simpson, Mark Itkin and Paul Nagle. Burton took a stab at primetime in the early 1990s with the animated CBS comedy "Family Dog," co-created by Burton and Steven Spielberg. The show, presented from a dog’s perspective, sat on the shelf for two years before airing in the summer of 1993. Creative details on the "Lost in Oz" series are sketchy as the project is in the early stages of development. The live-action series will revolve around the lesser-known characters and stories featured in the 40-plus "Oz" titles penned by Baum. Burton will exec produce the series with Joel T. Smith, who previously acquired the TV rights to Baum’s books. The series is tentatively targeted for a fall 1999 syndie bow, but the timing will hinge on the production and special effects necessary to do justice to Burton’s vision of Oz and its inhabitants, Krasnoff said. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 15:58:46 +0000 (GMT) From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-05-98 Jane: Glad to hear you had no serious problems from the weather in KC. Scott O.: >(What is plural for synopsis anyway?) Synopses. Like most if not all nouns whose singular ends in "-is," if they're of Classical (Greek or Latin) derivation, e.g. crisis, axis, parenthesis. I don't know if the Greek plural was actually "-es" or whether it's because most such words came into English from Greek through Latin; maybe someone who's studied Greek (I'm sure there's someone on the Digest - Ruth? John K?) can say. Nathan: >Well, the Nomes might have managed to conquer Oz and enslave its >inhabitants. Then again, if Roquat had been more competent during >_Ozma_, the important Ozites might have gained permanent places in his >ornament collection, and he wouldn't have even gotten the idea to >conquer Oz. After all, he had no intention of conquering Ev, even >though he had the royal family in his power. Probably so. If he hadn't lost his Magic Belt he wouldn't have had any interest in conquering Oz; regaining it was his motivation on pretty much all of his attempts. (EC, _Magic_, _Gnome King_, _Pirates_, _Handy Mandy_) Tyler: >I think the weight of the evidence is against the effect being attributed >to us being able to understand animals. If so, we would have heard Toto's >barks as words from the begining, but he instead waited and chose to speak >in our language at a specific time. Not necessarily; barks may not be "language" any more than humans yelling "Hey!" Just a sound dogs make to get attention, and consequently not translated - like the Cowardly Lion's roar. Jeremy: >It's too bad that, as David says, few fantasy novels are [not] called >fantasy novels when an author starts out. I see his point, but just >don't like it . . . I didn't mean that it was fair; just that Scott shouldn't feel singled out when he's getting the same treatment that just about any unpublished author (and a lot of published ones) would. J.L.: >When I first read and reread MAGIC, I puzzled about why the bees weren't >stuck to the island just as much as Trot and Cap'n Bill were. The answer I >came up with, and in physics class later got the vocabulary for, is that >THAT WORD transforms people around their centers of mass, or possibly >around their centers of intellect (heads). Thus, after becoming much >smaller creatures, Trot and the old sailor are located a coupla feet in the >air. And since bees can fly, they don't plummet to the ground and get stuck >again. I don't think so. If that were the case, then, for instance, when the Wizard was transformed into a fox he'd have dropped a couple of feet onto the ground, and that doesn't seem to have happened. And when the monkeys were transformed into giant soldiers their heads were nearer the point where they had been sitting than their CGs. And when Kiki Aru transformed himself from a crow back into Kiki Aru, he'd have ended up half buried in the ground. I think that the island only works on mammalian items. One wonders what would have happened if either Trot or Cap'n Bill had been wearing cotton socks rather than wool - as indeed would certainly seem more likely in Trot's case. Or more to the specific point, silk, which is an animal product but not mammalian. But perhaps we should postpone this discussion for another month or so, considering that _Magic_ will be the BCF soon. I doubt that Dorothy would have found the key to Tik-Tok's cave herself if Billina hadn't been along; Billina found it while pecking at the sand to find food, and Dorothy would have had no reason to dig in the sand that I can see. But you're right that she's probably resourceful enough to have figured out how to get away from the Wheelers. I don't see why she'd go looking for Evna and Langwidere without Tik-Tok, though, so it's unlikely that she'd have met Ozma; the timing was fairly critical on that. Atticus: Thanks for the review of the Gardner book. I'll undoubtedly still read it, but my expectations will be lowered. I know Gardner knows Oz, so I wonder if the inconsistencies with the FF were in his original MS or if they were changes the publisher insisted on. Bear: Welcome back. I'm sorry to hear the reason you had to go to Oahu, but if one has to go somewhere for such an unfortunate reason Oahu isn't a bad place to have to go. Dave: >In what book(s) does Dorothy temporarily ascend the throne in Ozma's >abscence? _Magical Mimics_. At least, Ozma appoints Dorothy to rule in her stead; I don't recall whether she literally sits on the throne. >Jellia: To lose one Ozian royal can be said to be a tragedy; to lose > both looks like carelessness! :) But strictly speaking neither princess nor king were "lost," despite the titles; both were kidnapped and imprisoned. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 12:34:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: BIG OZ NEWS JUDY GARLAND, MOVE OVER Filmmaker Tim Burton has signed a deal to executive produce "Lost in Oz," a syndicated TV series derived from the works of "Wizard of Oz" author L. Frank Baum. Variety reports that creative details are sketchy, as the big-budget project is in the early stages of development. The live-action drama will revolve around the lesser-known characters and stories featured in the 40-plus "Oz" titles penned by Baum. Columbia TriStar says the series is tentatively targeted for a fall 1999 bow, but the timing will hinge on the extent of production and special effects. BOY DID THEY GET THEIR INFO WRONG BAUM WROTE 40 PLUS ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Oct 98 12:39:40 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things MIMICS: Thanks to those who named _Magical Mimics_ as the book in which Dorothy assumes the throne... -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave **************************************************************************** Dave Hardenbrook, DaveH47@delphi.com, http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ "I like to define humor as the affectionate communication of insight." -- Leo Rosten, introduction to _Oh K*A*P*L*A*N, My K*A*P*L*A*N_ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, OCTOBER 9 - 10, 1998 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 18:24:14 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-08-98 I got the 1999 calendar at the convention so I wouldn't get stuck again. I planned to buy the 1998 calendar at the convention last year, but didn't. I didn't think I'd be sleighted it, though. Gardner's book sounds reminiscent of _Oz Squad_, which went on hiatus after ten issues and never reappeared. Care to know the last line? Dorothy says to Ozma, "I'm pregnant." Scott =================================== Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Frances: I've led a pretty boring life compared to yours. Freddy [the neighbor]: Mine was pretty boring, too. I've just got a knack for picking out the interesting bits. --David Williamson _Travelling North_ Act Two Scene Three ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 18:01:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-05-98 The 5th: As for whether Oz would be Oz without Burzee, one of you mentioned that there is non-Burzian magic. I hold to my opinion that Burzee was the center and therefore the source of magic in Baum's world. Visitors from Oz: Oz moved to an alternate world? Hmmm. I don't like how that (doesn't) jive with Bzum's explanation as I interpreted it. (Personally I thought it was on one to begin with, but that's not the point, no sense in starting up that debate again). My thoughts on the Digest of the Eighth are soon to come... Jeremy Steadman http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/9619 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 08:52:06 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: Dorothy, Conqueror of Oz Nathan DeHoff wrote: <> At times. She slaps the Cowardly Lion in WIZARD and the Tottenhots in PATCHWORK GIRL. In both cases, she's defending her friends. (And, of course, one mustn't try to steal her shoes.) Dave Hulan, I think it will be a good idea to examine the transformations in MAGIC when that book is up for discussion. I can't tell from the Tim Burton/LOST IN OZ announcements how much he'll be involved in the TV series creatively, or if he's simply a marquee name on the producing line. In the former case, the series will no doubt be visually interesting, but I hope someone helps Burton with plots. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 09:20:27 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest David Hulan: I think the point in saying that a bee or a bird would not be trapped on the Magic Flower Island isn't that it would be immune to growing roots, but rather that it would fly away before it did any serious root-growing (it takes a minute or so for the rooting to start). A bee or a bird foolish enough to land there and settle down would get as rooted as a mammal. On the question of how a magical transformation places someone when the transformation involves a considerable change in height, though -- that's hard to decide. J.L. Bell's suggestion that the centers of intellect are put in the same spot is attractive, although, as you say, the absence of any mention of a drop to the ground in such a change as Wizard-to-fox suggests that there isn't any such drop. Maybe the transformation is foot-level-to- foot-level (with appropriate equivalencies that kick in for footless beings). You wondered if cotton socks would protect against the island's magic, and if we should therefore assume Trot and Cap'n Bill were wearing wool socks. I'd guess that a cotton-knit fabric (especially hand-knit?) would be loose enough to let the magic seep in and the roots grow out. The is/es formation -- having snuck a peek at the appropriate grammar books, I can say that you are correct in thinking this type of plural formation represents Greek coming through Latin into English. All of the -is nouns are from the group called the third declension. One of the things that makes third-declension nouns confusing is that you can't tell from the nominative (subject-case) singular what the full stem of the word is, and the other cases are formed by adding the third-declension endings to the full stem. The full stem may be present (as in Latin "collis," hill, with the stem "coll," or Greek kris/krisis), or it may be abridged or disguised, as in the stems matric, indic, or gent, with nominative singulars matrix, index, and gens. Most of the third-declension nouns form the nominative plural by adding -es to the stem, so that in English we get the Latinate plurals matrices, indices, gentes. As it happens, in Greek the third-declension nouns that end in -is form their nominative plural with -eis, but the Latin -is words have just the -es. So those Greek -is words come into English with simple -es plurals, as in crisis/crises or synopsis/synopses. J.L. Bell: "Assuming the added weight of Dorothy and Toto didn't cause an insurmountable difference in the flight of the hot-air balloon" -- well, the Wizard was planning on having them along in the first place, if they hadn't jumped out at the last minute, so very likely the balloon would have gotten through even if they'd stayed. "Some form of pigeon" -- oogh! Earl Abbe and Mark Anthony Donajkowski: The projected Tim Burton Oz show sounds more promising than some of the other projects that have been announced of late. Whether it'll actually get done, of course, is another question. An unusual example of an Oz reference -- a Canadian friend sent me a copy of "Trailblazers: The Wizard of Oz New Media," an article by Charlene Rooke, from "New Trail" (vol. 53 #2), the U of Alberta alumni magazine, about one Janet Mayfield who named her multimedia company "Oz New Media." Their various products don't seem to have any direct Oz references, but Mayfield, who comes from Hutchinson, Kansas, suggested the name because "I figured a kid from Kansas could do great things." I received a fund-raising appeal letter from the Judy Garland Children's Museum in Garland's childhood home in Grand Rapids. This is probably a good cause, so if anyone wants to send them a donation, their address is PO Box 724, Grand Rapids MN 55744. They'll be having their 24th Annual Judy Garland Festival June 24-26, 1999, and expect to have some Munchkins from the film at the festival (the museum itself is open year round). Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 15:51:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: YET MORE OZ NEWS A CHANGE OF DATE FOR THE MOVIE RELEASE Cc: Dave Hardenbrook WARNER BROS. has announced the re-release of THE WIZARD OF OZ theatrically to 1,800 screens on November 6th, in celebration of the film's 60th Anniversary. This will mark the first time OZ has been released widely to theaters in over 25 years, and it's now been digitally restored and re-mastered in DOLBY DIGITAL stereo sound. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 16:49:12 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-08-98 GARDNER'S NEW BOOK, CONTINUED STEVE TELLER: >In light of Atticus' "warning" concerning Martin Gardner's VISITORS FROM OZ I >would like to mention that Martin Gardner was one of the 16 founding >members of >IWOC (Ruth Berman was another, as was Fred Meyer); he wrote the >introductions to >many of the Dover editions of Baum's books, and he was a long time >participant in >the struggle against the librarians and religious fanatics who have tried to >remove Baum and Oz from public libraries. His credentials as an Oz expert are >very strong. Which makes it all the more disappointing that VISITORS is so unOzzy. I was perfectly aware of Gardner's credentials. I've probably read more Oz books than many people have, but I could still write a book in which, say, Dorothy participates in an orgy, if I wanted to make a buck. The scene in which the Tin Woodman encounters a teenager hooker, for instance, is *thoroughly* gratuitous. Worse, this is a book I could very easily see a parent buying for a child. If you don't remember, the dust jacket blurb ends with, "A jewel of a story, _Visitors from Oz_ will bedazzle children and adults alike for decades to come." >It may be true that Gardner's book lacks innocence, but this is true about >most of >the "Oz books" that are written for adult audiences. Is it in a class with >WAS, >BARNSTORMER, DOROTHY--RETURN TO OZ or WICKED? I had expected better from Gardner than the books written for adults, particularly in light of his qualifications that you pointed out. I've only read BARNSTORMER, out of the four you named, and I wouldn't say VISITORS has nearly the levels of sex or violence that that book does, but there's no way VISITORS will make it into the HACC. Beyond those issues, I don't think it has a very strong plot. I should know, I used to write such things. and JOHN BELL: He does refer quite a bit to the series, but one might have hoped that he had done a better job of following it in his own writing. and DAVID HULAN: >Thanks for the review of the Gardner book. I'll undoubtedly still read it, >but my expectations will be lowered. I know Gardner knows Oz, so I wonder >if the inconsistencies with the FF were in his original MS or if they were >changes the publisher insisted on. One wonders. For the record, I'm not trying to do a hatchet job on this book. I just think that Gardner should know better. I grow weary of this topic and shall say no more. I don't like to dwell on such things. Hope everyone's having a nice weekend. It's beautiful here in Austin. Atticus * * * "...[T]here is something else: the faith of those despised and endangered that they are not merely the sum of damages done to them." Visit my webpage at http://members.aol.com/atty993 ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 21:49:20 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls >Burton, the director of "Batman," "Beetlejuice," "Edward Scissorhands" and "Ed Wood," among others. This is really depressing. Does anyone know the "others?" Well hope springs eternal. Hopefully, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 23:09:18 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz John Bell: Thanks for your comments. If you mean that the ultimate source of magic and power in the land of imagincation comes from the super-fairies like Ak and the other immortals in Baum's _Life and Adventures of Santa Claus_, then I'd be inclined to think that was a strong possibility. Granted, Lurline and her band seem to be active all over, but I am still not convinced that her band generates magic or the ability to practice it. There is ample evidence that there was magic in Oz before the enchantment. David Hulan: True, but in _Tin Woodman_, Nick and Polychrome were able to speak in Bird Language without anybody understanding them. In most fantasy literature, animals can understand human-language better than the other way around. Dave: Now that I think about it, I mentioned the circumstances around Dorothy assuming the throne, but I forgot to mention the book itself. No matter. Others did. :-) Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 20:29:21 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Parallels with Lewis Carroll's works. I have recently become involved in a discussion group about "Alice in Wonderland" and other of Carroll's works (it may be accessed by going to http://www.onelist.com/ and searching for lewiscarroll). As a result, I am doing a lot of reading in that area and just came across the following in "The Annotated Alice" with notes by Martin Gardner. On page 109 in the scene with the Queen of Hearts there is a marginal note which reads: 2. "I pictured to myself the Queen of Hearts," Carroll wrote in his article "Alice on the Stage" (cited in previous notes), "as a sort of embodiment of ungovernable passion--a blind and aimless Fury." Her constant orders for beheadings are shocking to those modern critics of children's literature who feel that juvenile fiction should be free of all violence and especially violence with Freudian undertones. Even the Oz books of L. Frank Baum, so singularly free of the horrors to be found in Grimm and Anderson, contain many scenes of decapitation. As far as I know, there have been no empirical studies of how children react to such scenes and what harm if any is done to their psyche. My guess is that the normal child finds it all very amusing and is not damaged in the least, but that books like "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland" and "The Wizard of Oz" should not be allowed to circulate among adults who are undergoing analysis. I am reasonably sure that the foregoing (the last sentence, anyhow) was written with a tongue firmly positioned in cheek but am trying to recall incidents of decapitation in the Oz books with little success. There are probable some but they don't come readily to mind. I would be happy to see some discussion of this on the Digest. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 10 Oct 98 20:26:17 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things "OFF WITH THEIR [WHATEVER]!": Bob Spark wrote: >I am reasonably sure that the foregoing (the last sentence, anyhow) >was written with a tongue firmly positioned in cheek but am trying to >recall incidents of decapitation in the Oz books with little success. >There are probable some but they don't come readily to mind. >I would be happy to see some discussion of this on the Digest. Well, there's Nick Chopper and the enchanted ax, then there's the "patching" in _Sky Island_, and I *suppose* you could count Langwidere's heads...The thing is, Nonestica is a bizarre continent where decapitation seldom results in death... GARDNER'S BOOK: I've begun _Visitors From Oz_, and I'm enjoying it so far...I'd like to comment on it as I go along... P. xiii -- The very first words of the Preface: "It is sad that so many children and adults today know about Oz only because they have seen the MGM movie that starred Judy Garland." Amen! (But we're working on it!) P. 3 -- "...a computer-animated version of _The Emerald City of Oz_ [or any other post-_Wizard_ Oz book].": Please! Don't make me salivate! :) PP. 8-10 -- Glinda and other Ozites owning phones and computers: Well, is that really any more unbelievable than animated phonographs, Scalawagon cars and Ozoplanes? As the Wogglebug remarked to me the other day, "Tempora mutantur nos et mutamur in illis." :) P. 8 -- "The Ozmapolitans": Is this a reference to the Ozzy Digest?? And *is* Glinda online, perhaps even a lurker here??? After finding out that all four members of ABBA are apparently online (including it seems the as-reclusive-as-Reera Agnetha Faltskog), nothing further can surprise me! :) Glinda, if you're here, please come out of the lurkers' closet! :) P. 17 - 21 -- The Klein Bottle: To an extent this seems like "Oz meets Heinlein and Rudy Rucker", but still I like the idea of incorporating it in the story... P. 25 -- "[Frankly my dear Scarecrow] I don't give a tinker's d***...": I agree with Atticus about the Tin Woodman saying the D-word -- not just about there being a four-letter word in an Oz book, but the idea of kind-hearted Nick using profanity. It's as improbable as a four-letter word ever passing the lips of "cute, lovable, furry old Grover"! P. 29 -- The Stephen Jay Gould incident: Is this a true story? Many of those Cambrian grotesques, especially _Opabinia_, _Hallucigenia_, and _Anomalocaris_, *do* look like they "must have come 'straight from Oz'"!! P. 33 -- The Combination lock, "5-13-5-18-1-12-4": I worked out the hidden meaing even faster than I figured out what that strange page with the strange typing is in the middle of _Red Reera...Eggs of Oz_. P. 39 -- The Polychrome "attack": It seemed less objectionable when I realized it was uttered by the goddess Juno, who is well-known for her vicious jealousy of all sweet and beautiful girls. (Anyone here see _Clash of the Titans_?) P. 77-8 -- A Date With Judit: Actually I'm not this far in the text yet, but my eyes fell on it while looking at the color plates... I can't believe someone beat me to it in getting a reference to "The Three Adepts at Chess" (the Polgar sisters) into an Oz book! Gardner seems to agree with me that Judit will be World Champion by the time the Oz Centennial rolls around! :) Don't agree with his assertion that demure and gentle Judit would react to losing to a computer by throwing chessmen across the room, though... Aurah: Well, it depends on the computer...If I lost to Tik-Tok or HAL or _The Hitchhiker's Guide_'s Deep Thought or Marvin I'd take it in stride...But if I lost to _Red Dwarf_'s computer-senile Holly, *that* might get me into a nasty mood... In short, I'm overall enjoying this book so far, and it is in fact revitalizing my own inspiration to write Oz books! ( I hope the _That Ozzy Feeling_-bashers are seething to hear me say that! :) :) ) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave **************************************************************************** Dave Hardenbrook, DaveH47@delphi.com, http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ "I like to define humor as the affectionate communication of insight." -- Leo Rosten, introduction to _Oh K*A*P*L*A*N, My K*A*P*L*A*N_ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, OCTOBER 11 - 13, 1998 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] WARNING! THIS ISSUE OF THE DIGEST CONTAINS MAJOR SPOILERS FOR _THE TIN WOODMAN OF OZ_! IF YOU HAVEN'T READ IT AND DON'T WANT TO HAVE MAJOR PARTS OF THE STORY GIVEN AWAY TO YOU, THEN PROCEED WITH *CAUTION*! -- Dave ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 09:56:28 -0400 From: lisa mastroberte Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-10-98 > PP. 8-10 -- Glinda and other Ozites owning phones and computers: Well, is > that really any more unbelievable than animated phonographs, Scalawagon cars > and Ozoplanes? As the Wogglebug remarked to me the other day, > "Tempora mutantur nos et mutamur in illis." :) > In one of the books, doesn't Ozma own a a thing that looks like a phone but has no cord? Maybe Ozma owns a cell phone....:) ~Lisa ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 12:39:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozmama@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-10-98 In a message dated 98-10-10 07:16:22 EDT, you write: << Gardner's book sounds reminiscent of _Oz Squad_, which went on hiatus after ten issues and never reappeared. Care to know the last line? Dorothy says to Ozma, "I'm pregnant." Scott >> Scott, if that was the last line of the Gardner book, please give a spoiler alert next time. Even if it's just _Oz Squad_, most readers would prefer to get to the last line all by themselves. Thanks. Ruth: The is/es formation -- having snuck a peek at the appropriate grammar books, I can say that you are correct in thinking this type of plural formation represents Greek coming through Latin into English. Sneaked, durnit, sneaked! Here I am, working my synapses to the axon, and one of the most literate people I know says "snuck"! O.K., I say it too, in informal, spoken English. Odd, but it does disturb me to see it in informal written English. I'm being overly picky, so feel free to ignore me! ;o) <> Atty, we're going, right? Gordon and Mike, anywhere you guys can think of where the four of us might meet? Maybe Plantersville and catch some RenFest before we relax with Oz? Alice and Oz: I've always thought that RPT was too heavily influenced by Alice when she wrote _...Cowardly Lion...._. It seems like Carrollian writing on a bad day. It will be interesting to discover what the rest of y'all think when we finally reach that book. It's (obviously) one of my least favorites. Dave: No fair! You're doing stuff that should have a spoiler notice, too! I want to read the darned thing on my own! I stopped reading it and shall save it until I get 'hold of a copy of my own. (But whatever shall I say to Martin if the book's as bad as it appears to be?) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 16:40:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-10-98 No roots to speak of: I guess Baum's implication that birds and bees wouldn't get trapped on Magic Flower Island implies that the birds and the bees aren't so different after all... Magic and Burzee: And then there's the question of where Burzee got its magic, too... Until nedt time, Jeremy Steadman http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/9619 ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 22:38:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: new oz news group rec.arts.books.wizard-of-oz ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 08:04:37 -0400 From: Krystal Baird Subject: Wizard of Oz props/Bizarre My daughter's school is putting on the Wizard of Oz in December. We are going to have a little carnival/bizarre before and during intermission. We want to do a picture with your favorite character booth. I'm wondering if you know where we can find OZ picture holders for the Polaroid pictures. We're in St. Petersburg, Florida. If you have any information, please reply to Joy at starrcom@gte.net. Thanks! ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 09:49:18 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: Shaggy Men outside Oz About the Wizard's balloon flight home, Ruth Berman wrote: <> We certainly hope so! The Wizard's more expert at ballooning in the books than the MGM movie makes him out to be. Even so, it seems unlikely that a hot-air balloon would have followed the same course with three passengers as with one, and thus have brought those passengers through the same adventures. Thanks for noting my "pigeon" remark. After my comment a few weeks ago about Dorothy putting the Sawhorse "out to spud" passed without reaction, I feared I was losing my touch. Tyler Jones wrote: <> I don't doubt Oz was as much a fairyland like, say, Noland and Pingaree. Indeed, YEW and SANTA CLAUS hint that almost all the world was overtly magical before "civilization" swept in like the Widder Douglas. I guess the clearest way to express myself is to say that in Baum's Oz books there's one and only one example of magic from country A profoundly changing country B: Lurline's spell on Oz allowing its inhabitants to never grow old or die. I can't think of an example of Ozma or Glinda casting a spell on a land outside Oz that affects more than a few people temporarily. Therefore, if other countries on Oz's continent seem to become more like Oz, there's little reason to see Oz as the source of that change. Lurline should be our top suspect, though the list may be long. Two other qualities also seem to set even the most prosaic parts of Oz off from other fairylands in the region: 1) the Deadly Desert. We know desert surrounded Oz before Lurline arrived--but was it magical then? [Is it really magical now, in fact, or does it simply have really scary signs on its borders?] 2) Animals' ability to speak. But some other countries--an inconsistent batch, but it always includes Mo--also have this quality. There's no indication Lurline brought this. As to whether the fairies of Burzee, or even the uberfairies we glimpse in SANTA CLAUS, are the actual *sources* of all magic, I don't hazard a guess. I just note that Burzee, like Mo and the Great Jinjin's kingdom, is a profoundly magical place, in ways more magical than Oz. Bob Spark wrote: <> The clearest parallel to Carroll's Queen of Hearts is Princess Langwidere: both threaten little-girl heroines with beheading. Other folks who lose their heads in Baum's Oz books include Nick Chopper, Jack Pumpkinhead, Button-Bright and Shaggy Man (who receive other heads in return), the Scoodlers, and Captain Fyter. In addition, the Scarecrow often loses almost everything *but* his head. I think there are two issues lurking beneath the horror of "decapitation." The first is deliberate and arbitrary nastiness by adults, like Hansel and Gretel's witch and the Queen of Hearts. The second is little kids' worry about body integrity; Fred Rogers has been singing "Everything Grows Together" for decades because of that fear. Baum's images of people being sliced open like potatoes (Gwig), stumbling around without heads (King of Mo), or being glued back together (Chopfyt) confront that fear in a silly, bloodless way. One parlor game for Oz conventions is to count the men in Baum's stories who've had at least one leg chopped off: Nick Chopper, Jack Pumpkinhead, John Dough, Bill and Joe Weedles, the general on the Isle of Phreex, an old soldier in QUEER VISITORS, Captain Fyter,... Calling Dr. Freud! Finally, folks interested in the Shaggy Man might be intrigued by what historians are now saying about the figure of the hobo in turn-of-the-century culture. Shaggy's most obvious literary predecessor is James Whitcomb Riley's "Raggedy Man," as Dan Mannix and others have pointed out. But such tramps seem to have had a particular political meaning in Baum's time and place as well. The following paragraphs come from "Where's the Romance of the Open Road?" by Nina Bernstein, NEW YORK TIMES, 10 Oct 1998, p. A15. Kusmer is a historian at Temple, author of DOWN AND OUT, ON THE ROAD: TRAMPS AND VAGRANTS IN AMERICAN SOCIETY, 1865-1940 (Oxford University Press, 1999). DePastino is a "young social and cultural historian"--i.e., that modern form of hobo, the untenured academic. In the mid-1890s, in the depths of the Gilded Age depression, the "Industrial Armies of the Unemployed" began recruiting homeless men from Western skid row neighborhoods for a cross-country "petition in boots" to demand a program of public works from lawmakers in Washington. Dozens of copycat marches were organized from Chicago, San Francisco, and the Pacific Northwest during this period of widening inequality and brutal strike-breaking. Hobo armies hijacked freight trains, often with the help of railroad workers sympathetic to their cause. By 1908, the Industrial Workers of the World, known as the Wobblies, had cast hobos as a muscular advance guard of the American class struggle. . . . Mr. Kusmer traces the rise of a more sympathetic image of homelessness in the early 20th century to the growing acceptance of rootless underemployment as a feature of the capitalist industrial economy rather than as a sign of bad character or social decay. Most jobs were temporary or seasonal, and with European immigrants flooding the labor market, even full-time year-round work was usually too low-paid to cushion families against illness, industrial accidents and the business cycles of the pre-welfare era. By the same token, the Ford Motor Company's factories, which paid the best industrial wages, experienced 100 percent turnover on the assembly line in 1905 as workers quit to drift on to something else. In this context, Mr. DePastino argues, the hobo came to represent a kind of manly embrace of insecurity and a last-ditch rebellion against the discipline of the factory floor. Shaggy's refusal to participate in the monetary system may reflect this romanticized view of the hobo, even if Baum didn't subscribe to all the Wobbly agenda. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 20:49:50 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Spark >incidents of decapitation in the Oz books with little success. There are probable some but they don't come readily to mind. I would be happy to see some discussion of this on the Digest. Well, I wouldn't. Isn't it interesting there is such an urge to dwell on the most negative parts of things. Briefly, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:53:18 +0000 (GMT) From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digests, 10-08 & 10-98 I spent a long weekend admiring the fall colors up in Door County, WI, so I have two Digests to comment on this time... 10/8: Steve: I didn't intend to be critical of Chris Dulabone; he can only put into the calendar what's made available to him. But the 1999 Calendar art isn't anything I'd want to exhibit on my wall. J.L.: > And if birds don't all speak a single >language, they at least share a common jargon--no doubt some form of >pigeon. *Groan* :-) >...assuming the added weight of Dorothy and Toto didn't cause an >insurmountable difference in the flight of the hot-air balloon. Well, yes. And the balloon must have been filled with magic hot air if it was able to cross Oz, the desert, and who knows how much other territory without a hot-air generator on board like those that hot-air balloons have today. But possibly, if as many of us think Oz is in a parallel world, the balloon only needed to ascend to a moderate height and pass through a spacewarp and it would suddenly be over the USA rather than Oz. Scott H.: >I don't like the idea of having my serious literature >consigned to the fantasy shelf. But there's plenty of serious literature on the fantasy shelf; if you don't want _your_ serious literature on the fantasy shelf, I suggest you eliminate fantasy from it. Earl: That's excellent news that Burton is planning a TV series based on post-Wizard Oz books. Now if it will only be well enough done that it's watched by a reasonable number of people... 10/10: Ruth: Cap'n Bill specifically states that his and Trot's socks are wool, and opines that this is why their feet could take root on the island. Bob: Decapitations in Oz? Besides the ones Dave mentioned there are the forty wolves the Tin Woodman decapitated in _Wizard_, the Scoodlers who decapitated themselves in _Road_, Blinkie knocking the Scarecrow's head off in _Scarecrow_, and the Tin Soldier's decapitation of himself with his enchanted sword, told of in _Tin Woodman_. Nikobob probably decapitated Choggenmugger in _Rinkitink_, but the text only says that he chopped it into small pieces. I think that's about it for Baum. King Fumbo's head blows off in _Grampa_, and of course Kuma Party's head, as well as most other parts of his body, are detachable in _Gnome King_. There are probably other instances in Thompson, but those come to mind quickly. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 12:51:59 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: TIN WOODMAN OF OZ themes As I've written, TIN WOODMAN was the second Oz book I read, after WIZARD. I was mighty confused since Ozma--whom I'd never heard of--plays a crucial role in this story. But I was enthralled with the terrible Mrs. Yoop and the dangerous, desolate landscapes the books' heroes traverse. Rereading TIN WOODMAN for the first time in several years, I think it holds up well. The ending is as frustrating as PATCHWORK GIRL's, but it's also realistic and well prepared for. The action is episodic, but thematically it hangs together well. Indeed, TIN WOODMAN displays two of the stronger themes in Baum's novels. The more clearly spelled-out moral is, "Don't assume you can barge in anywhere and be welcome." All through their journey the Tin Woodman and the Scarecrow go where they're not invited and suffer bad consequences. The Loons tie them up; the Scarecrow acknowledges, "We really had no right to disturb their peace and comfort" [64], but he keeps right on doing that at others' homes. Breaking into Mrs. Yoop's castle [69] causes our heroes to be imprisoned and enchanted. Lolling around Jinjur's farmhouse makes her try to sweep them out [148]. By Ku-Klip's cottage Woot has learned his lesson: "I think I will go outside until Ku-Klip comes. It does not seem quite proper for us to take possession of his house while he is absent" [208]. But Nick Chopper not only stays inside, he goes through the man's cabinets--and finds himself most disturbingly face to face with his face. Of all the houses outside the Winkie Country that the Tin Woodman and his companions visit, the Swynes' is the only one they don't enter uninvited [252]; it's also the place where they have the most uniformly positive experience. Given that pattern, the party's cool reception at Nimmie Ammee's house should be no surprise. Indeed, in contrast to some of his more slipshod plots, Baum has forecast the end of this quest early and often. As far back as page 38, the Tin Woodman was convinced "that poor Munchkin girl is anxiously awaiting my coming." Yet we already know her ideal husband is one who doesn't need cooking, mending, or laundering; who won't tire of dancing or work, letting his wife "amuse myself in my own way" [29]--hardly a girl to sit pining for her man. Even as Nick anticipates "her joy at our reunion," he has to acknowledge her sharp tongue [40]. The Tin Woodman's confidence in his own attractiveness isn't slowed by Ozma's lukewarm response to his plan [187]. Nor by learning that Nimmie Ammee took up with Captain Fyter after him [197]. Nor by hearing from the blue rabbit that the woman doesn't "weep and wail from morning till night," and retains her temper [265-8]. He's still flabbergasted when Nimmie Ammee isn't pleased to see him! Despite living on a secluded mountain and behind a thick wall, Nimmie Ammee has to spell out that she prefers her solitude. The Scarecrow wisely murmurs, "That sounds to me like a hint" [279]. Even Nick and Captain Fyter finally learn their lesson: "the two tin men...felt they were not welcome there" [280-1]. They all journey to the Emerald City, where our beloved Tin Woodman and Scarecrow are always welcome. But that breaking-and-entering theme isn't relevant to every episode in TIN WOODMAN--how does it apply to Tommy Kwikstep, or the Hip-po-gy-raf, or life as a green monkey? I see a deeper theme running through almost every part of this book, with the possible exception of the Swynes' visit. And that is the sad reality of our bodies' fragility. Near the end of the LOST PRINCESS, we found the Tin Woodman and the Scarecrow discussing the superiority of their non-meat bodies. They take up that favorite topic as soon as Woot arrives [16]. Indeed, each of the travelers is concerned with another's body. "The straw man was awkward in his movements and decidedly wobbly on his feet, so the boy wondered if the Scarecrow would be able to travel with them all the way to the forests of the Munchkin Country" [36]. "Straw and tin never tire at all. Which proves," retorts the Scarecrow, "that we are somewhat superior to people made in the common way" [43]. And Baum, son of an axle-grease manufacturer, makes sure to show us Nick Chopper oiling his joints [25]. The ensuing adventures highlight the fragility of all physical forms. Twice we hear the story of a man being chopped to pieces [once while Woot is trying to eat!]. The Loons pop. Tommy Kwikstep gets nineteen extra legs, and corns on top of that. Dragons have to sleep for a century. The Invisible Country hides travelers' bodies from sight, leading them into accidents. Even at the very end of their journey, our heroes must shrink their forms to the size of "a toy soldier" if they wish to approach Nimmie Ammee's door [269]. The book's most frightening moment is, appropriately, when the Tin Woodman, the Scarecrow, Woot, and Polychrome have their rightful bodies taken away from them. Their new forms have all the weaknesses of before--clinking tin, floppy straw--and more. Nick Chopper "found the sunshine very trying to his big [owl] eyes" [111]. The Scarecrow complains, "I'm getting tired of walking on all fours" [132]. And Woot is natural food for jaguars and dragons. When in turn Mrs. Yoop loses her body, she loses a vital aspect of herself; "in that form she will be unable to perform any magical arts whatsoever" [183]. By the latter half of the book, our heroes' bodies suffer indignity after indignity. The same straw "fragrance" the Scarecrow is so proud of [44] makes him vulnerable to the Hip-po-gy-raf [236]. Stuffed with hay, the Scarecrow is figuratively turned into a feeble old man, with swollen limbs and a hunch back, feeling heavy and "very clumsy" [249-50]. The two tin men, confident in their hardy exoskeletons, bump into each other and find themselves limping along like wounded veterans [239]. In using the term "old man," I refer to literary stereotypes; I don't claim that all older men end up crippled. But it's sadly undeniable that with time our adult bodies grow less resilient and demand more effort to stay in shape. [You college kids, enjoy the next five to six years. As a classmate of mine said at age 30, "I wish someone had told me about nose hair!"] Many folks have written about aging as looking down and thinking that the body you're in really isn't yours anymore; either somewhere back you lost the one you still think of yourself as having, or the one you have just won't do everything you tell it to. That out-of-body experience appears over and over in TIN WOODMAN. As muscular young men, Nick Chopper and Captain Fyter traded their meat bodies for tin ones and thought themselves the better for the change. (Even though wet weather freezes their joints worse than any arthritis.) Then they meet their younger bodies nose to nose, and realize they don't own those bodies anymore; the parts could be Ku-Klip's, they could be Chopfyt's, they could be Nimmie Ammee's to order around, but they're definitely not under the control of Nick Chopper and Captain Fyter. Furthermore, the tin men discover to their embarrassment that the girl they left behind has gone and married their youthful selves! Baum wrote TIN WOODMAN when he was sick, entering his final illness and largely confined to a twin bed in the room he shared with Maud. Only 62 years old, he may well have wondered what happened to the young body that strutted the stages of the Northeast. How lovely it must have been to imagine a land where bodies survive even after being chopped with axes and swords! Where a fresh load of straw is enough to make one feel like a new man! Where a fairy from the rainbow can repair sore feet and dented limbs, a fairy from the Emerald City can give you back the body you once enjoyed, and a fairy from Burzee can make sure "those who were young and strong did not change as the years passed them by" [156]! "The man who looks for security, even in the mind, is like a man who would chop off his limbs in order to have artificial ones which will give him no pain or trouble." --Henry Miller J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 13:05:08 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-10-98 J.L; Burton usually doesn't write his films, at least with credit. He did co-write _The Nightmare Before Christmas_ with credit however. (for example, _Mars Attacks!_ is credited to Jonathan Gems, who admits Burton co-wrote it without credit in the dedication of the novelization, and Caroline Thompson wrote _Edward Scissorhands_ based on a picture Burton told her about that he drew, but that she did not see). Bear: the others include _Vincent_, _Pee-wee's Big Adventure_, _Mars Attacks!_, _Hansel and Gretel_, _Batman Returns_, _Frankenweeine_, _Aladdin and His Wonderful Lamp_, and _Alfred Hitchcock Presents_ episodes (1985 version). His upcoming films are a remake of _X -The Man with the X-Ray Eyes_, _Sleepy Hollow_, and _Superman Reborn_. I have not seen his AHP episode (which includes "The Jar," though I don't know if this is from Bradbury's story. The Bradbury show of the story was quite creepy, though), _Hansel and Gretel_ (which was shown once on the Disney Channel and then stuffed in a vault), _Vincent_, and _Batman Returns_. Burton's version of Oz is something I quite look forward to. Bob: Gardner is referring to _Wizard_, which has forty-three decapitations and forty stranglings. Dave: I think Oz would look pretty lame done on a computer, IMHO. Remember how fake _Twister_ and _Godzilla_ looked? Not to mention full-computer stuff like _Reboot_ Ugh! Scott =================================== Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Frances: I've led a pretty boring life compared to yours. Freddy [the neighbor]: Mine was pretty boring, too. I've just got a knack for picking out the interesting bits. --David Williamson _Travelling North_ Act Two Scene Three ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 18:50:59 -0400 (EDT) From: TotoArf@aol.com Subject: Fwd: More Oz I'll just pass this along in the hope that someone who can help this guy will see it. -------------------------- From: RWishbone@aol.com Subject: More Oz Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 16:08:42 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Hi again. I also have two life size thick cardboard cutouts of the Oz characters.. They were used by Bloomingdales years ago for an Oz related promotion. One has Dorothy and the Lion. The other has the Tin Man, Scarecrow and the Wizard. The characters are the originals. I never put it up for auction because I think it is great at parties and I have no idea how much they are worth. If you would be so kind as to let me know what an Oz expert thinks these are worth I would be grateful Thanks Rich ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 09:23:26 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest/Tin Woodman Some thoughts about "Tin Woodman." David Hulan has commented that he doesn't much care for it (although finding it of interest for the information about Lurline's enchantment of Oz, the Tin Woodman's past, and such). I can see the objection -- the quest to get rid of the Yookoohoo-imposed shapes is more urgent to the characters, and so when that aim is achieved, it feels as if the story should be over, and it feels anticlimactic to get back to the dutiful starting aim of locating Nimmee Aimee. But the two aims are linked thematically, as both turn out to be explorations of what it means to be oneself. The conversations about whether they're still themselves when transformed into different shapes, and whether the Tin Woodman is or isn't the same person as the pieces of his former self or his twin tin are some of Baum's funniest. The discrepancies between Baum's various versions of Lurline's enchantment have been pretty widely discussed. In the past, there's also been some discussion of the discrepancies between the versions here and in "Dorothy and the Wizard" of how the Wizard got the Nine Piglets. An early "Bugle" round-up of opinions on how to explain away discrepancies suggested that perhaps Professor and Mrs. Swyne originally lived on the Isle of Teenty-weent themselves and assumed that their sailor had been the Wizard when they heard the kids were with the Wizard. (I wonder if the sailor could have been Cap'n Bill or maybe Trot's father.) Another discrepancy is in the description of Nimmee Aimee's employer as the Wicked Witch of the East -- in "Wizard," Nick had said the employer was an old woman who went to the WWE for help. Perhaps Nick had assumed that his girlfriend couldn't really be working for the ruler of the territory and that the employer and the axe-enchanter were separate people, but later learned they were the same? Or perhaps the Witch had been maintaining a Secret Identity (for purposes of spying on ordinary Muchkin opinions?), and the connection between the two had been learned later? (In the pictures, it's interesting that Neill gives us the only drawing of the WWE, and also, in one of the color plates, the only drawing of the pre-tinned Nick.) Robert Pattrick wrote a pleasant short story sequel, "The Tin Woodman and the Tin Soldier," with the two of them undertaking to tame a field of wild flowers (available in #3 of the "Best of the Bugle" collections). Theodore Sturgeon wrote a sciencefiction story, "The Green Monkey," not with reference to Woot, but to an unpleasant experiment in which the experimenters found that a monkey with its fur dyed green would be perceived as a threatening alien and killed by the rest of the band of monkeys. I don't know when this experiment was supposed to have been made, or if Baum would have been likely to know about it. Bob Spark & Dave Hardenbrook: Dave is obviously correct in suggesting that "TW" must be one of the main examples Martin Gardner had in mind in talking about decapitation in the Oz books. Another example would be Fumbo's lost head in "Grampa," and another example from the Borderlands books would be the switching about of the King's head and the Woodcutter's and the substitute heads made of candy, bread, and wood in "Magical Monarch of Mo." And, too, Jack Pumpkinhead quite often loses his head, and the Scarecrow in "TW" loses his stuffing and is left with only the head and the empty suit of clothes -- another version of the nature-of-identity question that runs through the book and shows up in a lot of Baum's writing. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 13 Oct 98 15:56:07 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things "RING, RING; WHY DON'T YOU GIVE ME A CALL!": Lisa Mastroberte wrote: >In one of the books, doesn't Ozma own a a thing that looks like a phone but >has no cord? Maybe Ozma owns a cell phone....:) Yes! You're quite right! In _Tik-Tok_ IIRC. GARDNER'S BOOK: Robin wrote: >Dave: No fair! You're doing stuff that should have a spoiler notice, too! >I want to read the darned thing on my own! What can I say but, "Oops!" Reminder to everyone including myself: Please surround "spoiler space" around all book discussions to avoid spoiling the book for people who haven't read it...(See my _Tin Woodman of Oz_ comments below) But since what I've said about Gardner's book seems to have only served to prejudice people against it even *more*, I think I'll keep quiet about it at least until I've finished it... NEWSGROUP: Mark wrote: >new oz news group >rec.arts.books.wizard-of-oz Um, did I miss something?? (When was the vote, etc.?) WAS IT SOMETHING I SAID?: J.L. Bell wrote: >Thanks for noting my "pigeon" remark. After my comment a few weeks ago >about Dorothy putting the Sawhorse "out to spud" passed without reaction, I >feared I was losing my touch. I think we've all posted things on the Internet feeling sure that *someone* would respond, and then feel there was something wrong with us when they didn't...At least I certainly have. COMUPOZ: Scott H. wrote: >Dave: I think Oz would look pretty lame done on a computer, IMHO. >Remember how fake _Twister_ and _Godzilla_ looked? Not to mention >full-computer stuff like _Reboot_ Ugh! This is one of those things we can argue about 'til the Kalidahs come home, but IMHO a computer could really help in rendering Ozzy landscapes (see my web page), and some of the "grotesques" like the Scarecrow, Tin Man, etc. I'd favor human beings to portray the meat people however. ****** SPOILERS FOR _THE TIN WOODMAN OF OZ_ AHEAD!!! ****** Some random thoughts: -- Nick says he has "a kind heart, not a loving heart", but how can he be kind without being loving?? -- The thing most dissatisfying about this book IMHO is that Nick puts himself through such misery to find a girl he no longer loves...I mean, what's the hippikaloric point?? I agree with Ruth that after the Yookoohoo spell is broken, it's downhill and anticlimatic from there... -- The *best* thing about the book for me is Ozma acting assertively to resolve the Yookoohoo problem. For once she's behaving maturely and intellegently as a ruler should. Of course, a certain Oz fan who will remain nameless (he's not on the Digest) thinks that this "new Ozma" is the direct result of Baum's illness, and that the "little girl after