] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 27 - APRIL 1, 1999 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:15:36 +1100 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Re:Oz Digest Nathan: I'm sure that all the characters I mentioned are in the parade. -World of Oz- says so, and so does the IWOC website. Lots of people have spotted them. I'm sure I saw Private Files and Ozga at the beginning of the parade, but I'm not sure..... Food in Oz: Well, Ozites are NOT vegetarian as we can plainly see, for we have some evidence that they eat meat. For ex: Mombi nearly cooked Pajuka the Goose in -Lost King-. See? Money in Oz: There is alot of evidence that Ozites use money in Oz. We can cut off all evidence before Ozma's accension because she may have put a stop to it, but there are a couple of times when we see money being used afterwards..... For ex:Mombi threatens to turn Snip into a sixpence coin unless he keeps quiet in -Lost King- and spend him at the first village they come to. Well, maybe Mombi didnt know about Ozma's new laws, and maybe she thought that Ozites still used money like in the old days...... Handy-Mandy and Scraps: Its a pity that they didnt become friends. They have a lot in common. Ruby Slippers: The Ruby Slippers in -RTOZ- are a thousand times better than those in -MGM-. Anyone who watched -RTOZ- will notice this. David(Godwin): I agree with you that Emma Ridley wasnt a good Ozma. Come to think of it, none of the Oz characters(actors) in RTOZ are good *.Dorothy- Too solemn *.Ozma- Same as Dorothy *.Cowardly Lion: Why wont that creature talk? *.Scarecrow: Not bad, but could have been better. They shouldnt have used a dummy.... *.Tinman: We never really see him act *.Mombi: Not at all the Mombi we find in the books. For one thing she is not so old, and doesnt have that cunning look.... *.Gnome King- Not at all the jolly old Ruggedo we find in the books *.Billina: Well done! *.Jack Pumpkinhead: Well done! *.Tiktok:Well done! *.Aunt Em: Too young. *.Uncle Henry: Too young *.Toto: Well done! I think they shouldnt have had Mombi in -RTOZ-. It would have been nice to see a vain young sorceress like Coo-ee-oh. They could have turned someone like Queen Anne,Langwidere or Jinjur into a sorceress too. It would have been more interesting. BTW: The name Langwidere sounds absurd! Why couldnt Baum find her a better name? I also think that Coo-ee-oh was a longer name and was modified into three syllables. --Gehan Cooray ============================= "I think I've had a change of heart. The animal plant toxins had a unique effect on me. They changed my blood with aloe, my skin with chlorophyll, and filled my lips with venom.....One more thing, I'm POIson..... I'm natures arm! Her spirit! Her will! Hell, I am Mother Nature! And the time has come for plants to take back, the world so rightfully ours! Cause its not nice, to fool with Mother Nature!" --Poison Ivy (Batman and Robin. Warner Bros.) "My will is law!" --Princess Langwidere (Ozma of Oz by L.Frank Baum) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:15:35 +1100 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-23-99 Dave, Lisa and Aaron: This is my last week in colege for this term, and so I will *finally* have enough and more time to complete my site and advertise the RPG. We should hopefully start in a few weeks. I still need more characters.... David(Hulan): Sorry, what I meant to say was that the WWE paid Mombi to kidnap the Royal Munchkin Family and erase them from everyones memory. I also reveal that Mombi did this to use Orin and switch places between her and Locasta. It really looks as if Mombi is or rather *one* of the most powerful witches in Oz. I also meant her to be the most powerful wicked witch in Oz, so dont confuse her with the good witches. Someone said that Glinda may have laernt her sorcery from Zixi or Gayalette or Wam, but I dont think so. I beleive that someone, probably one of her ansectors, gave her access to studying sorcery. Thats plausible.... BTW: Are the WWW and the WWE sisters? Are Glinda and Locasta sisters? Its never mentioned in the books, only in the movie and other versions of -Wizard of Oz- The Wonderful World of Oz Amusement Park: It would be pretty dull if its MGM-only. There are lots of places in the books which they can use. Such as Bunbury,Lollipop Village,Black Forest,Loonville e.t.c. But it would be interesting to have the nothern country a land of ice and snow. I wonder how the southern country will be? And wonder who will be its ruler.... Lisa: Know what you mean....The Glinda in the MGM movie was sillier than the Glinda in the books. The Glinda in the gbooks thinks well and acts wisely, unlike Billie Burke. They should have developed her character and choosen a better, more beautiful actress..... You said your vegetarian.....Let me guess....I bet you did Medicine in college, and they showed you how animals are killed and all that stuff, untill you couldnt bear it any longer, and so you became a vege. Am I right? I'm not trying to be too smart.... Nathan: Sorry, I mixed up Wam with Wutz. I meant to compare Wutz with Mombi....... Dave: O.k. You can play Ozma as well. Thanks a million! She was especially needed! C'ya later! --Gehan Cooray ============================== "I think I've had a change of heart. The animal plant toxins had a unique effect on me. They changed my blood with aloe, my skin with chlorophyll, and filled my lips with venom.....One more thing, I'm POIson..... I'm natures arm! Her spirit! Her will! Hell, I am Mother Nature! And the time has come for plants to take back, the world so rightfully ours! Cause its not nice, to fool with Mother Nature!" --Poison Ivy (Batman and Robin. Warner Bros.) "My will is law!" --Princess Langwidere (Ozma of Oz by L.Frank Baum) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 16:57:53 GMT From: David Hulan Subject: Ozzy Digest 03-23-99 Yet another of my posts seems to have been lost in cyberspace, maybe because I hit "reply" and forgot to change the address to "OzDigest" from "DaveH47". Anyhow, here's what I wrote on 3/24: ---------------- Regarding the ongoing discussion about the absolute darkness during the storm in RB, I ran across this interesting quote the other day: "A darkness overspread us, not like that of a cloudy night, or when there is no moon, but of a room when it is shut up and all the lights are extinguished. Nothing then was to be heard but the shrieks of women, the screams of children, and the cries of men...some wishing to die from the very fear of dying, some lifting up their hands to the gods; but the greater part imagining that the last and eternal night had come, which was to destroy both the gods and the world together." This is a translation of part of Pliny the Younger's description of the eruption of Vesuvius in 79 CE, as viewed from several miles away from the volcano itself. Perhaps the "storm" wasn't a storm at all, but a volcanic eruption? And the booming wasn't thunder, but the bangs of exploding vapor, etc.? That would explain the absence of lightning or rain. The eruption could have been out in the Deadly Desert somewhere, so there'd be no destruction in Oz proper. Lisa: >No meat? Yipee! (As you can probably tell, I am a vegetarian.) But in >one of the books, doesn't it say something about animals for food can be >killed? I forget which one, I have a short memory. In _Ojo_ Realbad kills a couple of birds that he and Ojo and Snufferbux eat, and it's clear that wild animals in Oz eat other animals (and occasionally people) - e.g., the jaguar's requests to Polychrome in _Tin Woodman_. I can also recall meat being served at some of Ozma's banquets, though it has been theorized that this meat grows on plants. In the current BCF you may recall that the CL ate 17 roasts at the Scarecrow's tower; I doubt if they were roasted potatoes... Vegetarianism (hardly vegan; butter and cheese are commonly eaten) seems to have been confined to the first book, and it may have been only coincidental that none of the meals described in detail included meat. Nathan >We don't >really know much about the Scarecrow's reign. And from what little we do know about it he doesn't seem to have been that competent. The events between Jack's arrival in the EC and Jinjur's invasion reveal a ruler acting somewhat sillier than Rinkitink. Tyler: >My answer to this question is the same as an earlier question posed on the >Digest "Who would make the best President of the United States from the Oz >books?". That, IMHO, is Cap'n Bill. I agree. >Of course, it was in either _Lost Princess_ or _Glinda_ that the good Cap'n >temporarily looked after things while the rest were off to find Ozma. He >did not rule per se, he just minded the store. It was _Lost Princess_; in _Glinda_ Cap'n Bill went along with the other councillors to the Skeezer city. >Not all male villains in the FF are stupid. Mustafa of Mudge and Baron >Mogodore were fairly competent, as was the Sultan of Samandra. Of course, >these are all Thompsonian baddies. For the most part, their only mistake >was underestimating Ozma's power, although they may have known too much >about her at the time. For that matter Ugu is far from stupid; his only real mistake was caused by ignorance of the Magic Belt and its powers. (Puzzling, since it was in Oz well before the Wizard became a real wizard and had his black bag of magic tools, and Ugu knew about that.) And he was the only serious male villain in Baum, aside from Roquat/Ruggedo. (I count someone a "serious" villain who is a danger to all Oz; villains like Krewl or the Su-dic or Mr. Yoop or King Gos are only threats to their immediate neighbors or, in the last case, to people outside Oz.) I'd also add Mooj and Wutz as competent Thompson villains, though I agree that Gorba/Abrog, Glegg, Loxo, and Strut aren't very bright. Gehan: >Regarding the Ozzy RPG: >As I said, you can play a character of the opposite sex as well. I dont >think that is quite a challenge. Infact, I find it easier to play the role >of a female character than a male one's. Well, I'm taking two female and one male character, but my female characters are both cats. And none of my characters are human. That's probably more of a challenge than playing a female of my own species, isn't it? :-) David G.: >Also, I'm not sure >that non-magical lions in non-magical countries are able to run for three >hours - I have the impression that they're good at sprinting, not so good >on the long haul. True. Lions are very fast for 50-60 yards, but they tire rapidly. Humans actually have greater endurance than most animals (if the human is in good condition; not _me_!); I've read that human hunters on foot can run down a horse or a deer or an antelope eventually, though for short distances they're nowhere near as fast. Some canids - wolves, particularly, and their close relatives domestic dogs (other than breeds that have been selected for other characteristics) - have the same kind of endurance; felids don't. >As for how far Dorothy can walk in a day, I think we've all agreed that >travel times as reported in the FF are notoriously unreliable. On the >Haff-Martin map, the distance from the Truth Pond to the Tin Woodman's >castle is roughly equivalent to the distance from "where Dorothy's house >landed" to the Emerald City, and the latter journey took five days. The journey in _Road_ is one of the most suspect ones in the whole FF. Another question it raises is how Tik-Tok, of all characters, managed to walk from wherever he was last wound up to near the Truth Pond. Billina surely couldn't have wound him; did she have to periodically hunt up a friendly Winkie? We know a single winding doesn't last him anything like a full day when he's walking. But most of the rest of the books seem to be fairly consistent with an Oz that's about the size of Belgium; a little bigger than New Hampshire or Vermont (and a very different shape). A reasonably close approximation in both size and shape might be the part of Tennessee within the "big bend" of the Tennessee River. With nothing but shank's mare available for travel most of the time, that's plenty big enough to accommodate everything shown in the FF with adequate room to spare for new stories. (Of course, you have to get rid of the scalawagons first...) >As an afterthought to my posting about the storm and the Cowardly Lion's >22-1/2 (or 25, or 45) mile dash through the land of the Winkies in _Royal >Book_ - what really beggars the imagination is that anyone or anything >could travel such a distance in Thompsonian Oz without having to go through >at least half a dozen IEs. It was so dark that they got past all those little town/kingdoms unseen! :-) Gehan again: >But Shanower's illustrations are much nicer than Neill's. Dorothy looks much >prettier. Ozma looks more mature and Glinda looks more beautiful. Anyone >agree with me? I'm not sure I'd agree that Shanower's illustrations are _much_ nicer than Neill's, but they're very nice indeed - except for a couple of pictures of Ozma in _Enchanted Apples_ that puts an expression on her face that I find very unattractive. >*.Denslow drew Dorothy with blonde hair. In the cover of -DOTWIZ- its >auborn.In -Patchwork Girl- its brown, and Dorothy looks much younger than >she were before. Dorothy looks like a redhead in the Denslow illustrations in my copies of WIZ. And she has either reddish-blonde or blonde hair in both _DotWiz_ and _Emerald City_, which you should remember are the only two books where Neill actually did colored illlustrations. The colors in the other books were put in by the printer and may or may not have represented what Neill had in mind. In _Patchwork Girl_ one colored illustration clearly has Dot blonde, and one has her with light brown hair. In the rest she has a sunbonnet on and it's hard to tell, though in one where a good bit of hair shows she's blonde again. >Why did Neill change his drawings so often? How can Dorothy and Ozma grow >tall and short? Do they die their hair or something? You may also notice >that Trot's hair style changed, as well as her hair colour. Could someone >please tell me why Neill kept doing this so often? Well, if you look at pictures of my wife over the years we've been married you'll see her with long straight blonde hair in our wedding pictures, with short wavy blonde hair a few years later, with shoulder-length very curly brown hair a few years later, with short wavy red hair a few years later, and currently with shoulder-length moderately curly brown hair. Admittedly, she's aged 25 years in that time, but mostly the difference is owing to choice. I see no particular reason why Ozma, Dorothy, or Trot should leave their hair the same color and style indefinitely; I imagine they'd like a bit of a change now and then the same way Marcia does. And in Oz, with all the magic available, they probably don't even have to worry about touching up their roots to maintain the new color... The tall-short aspect, however, is more puzzling. Larry: >Would anyone know the going rate for a hardcover copy in good condition >of "To Please A Child"? No, but if you have a copy for sale I'd like to put in a bid on it. Dave: >I'll be one of the heretics and say that I think Ozma is generally a >good ruler... I hardly think that's heretical; I think my assertion that at the beginning of her reign she _wasn't_ a very good ruler is considered more heretical. David Hulan ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Re: Ozzy 03-26-99 Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 13:56:05 PST David Godwin: >BTW, I think >money is also used in _The Ozmapolitan of Oz_. I believe that Tim gives a few silver coins to Skipper Sally in exchange for her fortune cookies. Of course, Sally lives some way out of the Emerald City, so money might still be used in her part of the country. Dave Hardenbrook: >Gehan wrote: >>Is -Blue Witch of Oz- also one of Shanower's comic books, or a >>normal book >>like -Giant Garden of Oz-? Is the story about the Good Witch of the >>East, or >>the the Wicked Blue Witch of the East? > >It is a "graphic novel" (in other words, a comic book). It is about >the Good Witch of the East. The self-proclaimed Wicked Blue Witch of the East appears in Robin Hess's _Christmas in Oz_. -- May you live in interesting times, Nathan DinnerBell@tmbg.org http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== From: Ozmama@aol.com Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 20:00:39 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy 03-26-99 In a message dated 3/26/99 10:12:01 PM Central Standard Time, DaveH47@mindspring.com writes: << In judging Thompson's infatuation with royalty, I take into account how she made Peter a knight and Speedy a princess's likely betrothed even as they return to America. Zeb didn't get that treatment. Baum made Dorothy a princess, as she deserved, but left Trot, Betsy, and Button-Bright as ordinary palace guests. Thompson elevated the first two to princess level. When a poor Gillikin boy wanders into TIN WOODMAN, he ends up as...a poor Gillikin boy. In PURPLE PRINCE, the similar figure turns out to be a king. Ojo ends PATCHWORK GIRL living happily with his uncle (whose royal blood isn't mentioned after the beginning of the book). Thompson moves them out of that small cottage into a big castle. Baum's happy, status-quo-ante endings didn't seem sufficient for Thompson. >>John L. Bell Zeb and Woot aren't genuinely heroic, but Peter and Speedy are. I see RPT's making Trot and Betsy royal as rectifying an inequity! She seems to feel that a child who acts really bravely and loyally deserves to be a prince or princess. Bob Up is a wuss. Snip and Jellia are happy servitors, as John points out. Jellia, of course, does get to be royal, temporarily, in _Ozoplaning_. Mandy has never seemed much like a child to me, btw. She's a grownup making her own way in the world. It would be very odd for such a character to want to bother with being royal. <>John, again Oh, that's good! Corny, but good! And now we know the answer to that age-old question "Where's the beef?" It's in Oz. Hey, did anyone answer my question about how to play the roleplaying game? I know nothing about that kind of stuff. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 13:00:52 -0500 From: "Lisa M. Mastroberte" X-Accept-Language: en Subject: My Replies David: <> Would you want to live in a land that is perfect all the time? No money used? Come on...many people disagree with me, but selfishness is what makes the world go round. If we simply operated on Tender Loving Care for other human beings, nothing would get done. Besides, in Oz, does _every_ one live like Ozma? In her opulent palace? Coronation scene of "Return to Oz": According to Tricia Trozzi, ALL the characters from the 14 Baum books, as well a few from the Neill books (Jenny Jump is there) and RPT (yes, that's Notta Bit More!). It is a huge scene, and Tricia said they are ALL there, although many are VERY hard to spot. (Someone on my RTOZ list said that the Wogglebug is there. Where, I have no clue. Back to the video! I'll review it this afternoon.) Also, the Musicker: He is most noticeable as one of two characters to catch Jack when he faints ("MOM!! My *real* mom!") ...he's dressed in purple with no mustache and an 'Oz' symbol on his belt instead of the 'M' like in Neill's illustration. Another thing about the scene: the guards are from the four countries of Oz, so there's a couple dressed in red, purple, yellow, and blue. The one dressed in green, however, must be Omby Amby. Peace!! ~Lisa ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 14:48:26 GMT From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy 03-26-99 Nathan: >He did seem to be quite frightened of the Ozoplanes (in _Ozoplaning_). True, but that's more in the line of talking cowardly than acting it - i.e., when the chips were down he did get onto the Ozoplane, even though he didn't like the idea. >While the image of an elephant being blown away by a storm is quite >amusing, this seems like yet another one of Thompson's hurried attempts >to get the characters to the right place. Note that a thunderstorm also >helped Kabumpo and Randy to cross the desert in _Purple Prince_. Why >would so many storms fall in such an arid area as the edge of the Deadly >Desert? Maybe the Rain King has a particular liking for Kabumpo. That arid area seems to get quite a bit of rain - it had rained near there to get Polychrome lost early in _Tik-Tok_, and again to get her home at the end. Then it happens again in _Lucky Bucky_ so that a rainbow can be used to get travelers over the desert. (Incidentally, that rainbows actually touch the ground is another way in which the laws of physics seem to be different in Oz, which reinforces my argument that it's not physically on this earth. Rainbows here aren't physical objects; they're lighting effects that inherently can't contact a physical object.) Ruth: >Your suggestion of Zixi as another possibility -- if Glinda could get to Ix >for >that, an additional possibility (attractive as suggesting a link to Glinda's >preferred title of "sorceress") might be Soob the Sorcerer who gets mentioned >in "Gnome King" (residence unknown, but probably on or near the Nonestic, as >some of his magic turns up on a Nonestic island). Perhaps the initial >instructor would pretty much have to be an Ozite, but once started in the >field Glinda could have looked for training from more than one person. I'd imagine that Glinda's aerial chariot (pulled by storks or swans; ISTR that in some cases it was one and in some the other) could get across the desert easily enough. Soob's magic was on Polacky's ship, though, wasn't it? Not on an island. But for Polacky to have gotten it (by fair means or foul) presumably it was in a coastal location at the time, which probably means that Soob lived near a coast. J.L.: >In judging Thompson's infatuation with royalty, I take into account how she >made Peter a knight and Speedy a princess's likely betrothed even as they >return to America. Wasn't Peter made a prince? I know Ozma offered him the title, and I thought he took it even though he refused the offer to remain in Oz. (Maybe I should check my copy of _Gnome King_; that's two questions that have come up about it that my memory is vague on. But it's downstairs and I'm lazy.) David G.: >...in _Ozma_, Dorothy has a ham >sandwich from a lunchbox that is growing on a tree. Not only it is not >vegetarian, it isn't even kosher! I think that's questionable; if something grows on a tree it seems to me that it's _ipso facto_ vegetarian, and consequently kosher (except maybe for Passover). Just because it tastes like ham and has the texture of ham and maybe the nutritional characteristics of ham doesn't make it an animal product. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 08:58:39 -0800 From: Nancy Weisberg X-Accept-Language: en Subject: Time for Tin Man! Our friends at Books of Wonder are now publishing L. Frank Baum's twelfth tale of over-the-rainbow fun in "The Tin Woodman of Oz." Available early May at the low price of $15.40 (plus s&h, brings it to only $19.35): http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0688149766/weisbeontheweb Order your's today!! Best... Larry Weisberg ldweisberg@geocities.com Visti "Welcome to Oz" @ WEISBERG on the WEB: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Bungalow/2525 ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 20:08:07 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: The Good Witch of the North If the GWN was already dis-enchanted when Jack Snow started writing -Magical Mimics-, then who was the GWN who attended Ozana's welcome party? Also, the Wizard claimed that there were two good witches in Oz when he came, Glinda and the GWN. And that was about fifty years before Dorothy's arrival. Orin said that she was turned into the GWN 25 years ago, a few years before Dorothy's arrival. Then who was the GWN Oscar spoke of? I know it was Locasta, but, I'm speaking canonically... Any iedias? --Gehan =================================== "I think I've had a change of heart. The animal plant toxins had a unique effect on me. They changed my blood with aloe, my skin with chlorophyll, and filled my lips with venom.....One more thing, I'm POIson..... I'm natures arm! Her spirit! Her will! Hell, I am Mother Nature! And the time has come for plants to take back, the world so rightfully ours! Cause its not nice, to fool with Mother Nature!" --Poison Ivy (Batman and Robin. Warner Bros.) "My will is law!" --Princess Langwidere (Ozma of Oz by L.Frank Baum) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:27:33 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Ozma-the-Red: Ozma is closer to being a pure communist than anyone in the Soviet Union was (or Yevgeny Primakov is today). That is, all share in everything, and the rulers exist totally for the benefit of the masses. The one difference is that Ozma and the other rulers are not elected. Someone once said that a benevolent despotism was the best type of government. It would be efficient, but not corrupt or oppressive. Ozma is certainly efficient, with her magical powers, and she is not in any way corrupt or oppressive. Also, I don't really see Ozma having a lot of presence in people's daily lives. She is not a micromanager. Gehan: _The Blue Witch of Oz_ is a traditional graphic novel (aka super-comic-book) from Eric Shanower, and it is about the heretofore unknown Good Witch of the East. It is my all-time favorite of the Shanower books, although it is a little dark, like most of his work. It also has a very nice picture of Glinda's castle, looking rather different from the way Neill drew it in _Ozoplaning_. John Bell: By way of expanding your comment about Oz as a place where things literally grow on trees, I'll add that the climate and soil are amazingly excellent, allowing the people to grow plenty of good food with little or no effort. I'd also imagine there are few if any boll weevils, locusts, etc. Or, if there are, they eat their fair share and no more. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 15:32:52 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: The Royal Book of Oz How can the Scarecrow's beanpole, rise from the Silver Island? I thought it was an ordinary pole fixed by the Munchkin Farmer. Surely he would have done some research if he saw a beanpole arise from nowhere. And even if it were a magic beanpole, and if the spirit of Chang Wang Woe enters the first person who touches it, then the spirit should have entered the farmer. Surely he would have touche the pole before the Scarecrow? Ruth Plumly Thompson doesnt think straight and that annoys me! I also cant stand the thought of our jolly old scarecrow having the spirit of Chang Wang Woe. -Royal Book- is totally un-fit. I didnt enjoy it much either. But then, by rejecting -Royal Book-, all the Thompson books are rejected, mainly because of Sir Hokus of Pokes. I would have assumed that it was all a bad dream which Dorothy had, but the fact that Sir Hokus settled won in the EC rejects that. --Gehan Cooray =================================== "I think I've had a change of heart. The animal plant toxins had a unique effect on me. They changed my blood with aloe, my skin with chlorophyll, and filled my lips with venom.....One more thing, I'm POIson..... I'm natures arm! Her spirit! Her will! Hell, I am Mother Nature! And the time has come for plants to take back, the world so rightfully ours! Cause its not nice, to fool with Mother Nature!" --Poison Ivy (Batman and Robin. Warner Bros.) "My will is law!" --Princess Langwidere (Ozma of Oz by L.Frank Baum) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 31 Mar 99 09:32:43 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: Return to Oz parade censusing Nathan DeHoff & David Godwin & Dave Hardenbrook: You all commented (in answering Gehan Cooray's question about the variation in Neill's drawings of Dorothy and Ozma) that Neill probably made changes for the sake of variety. Some additional factors probably also at work: he made some use of models (his daughters, nieces, and others), and a suddenly younger Dorothy or Ozma may mean a switch to a younger model; Neill liked to have his characters keep up with American fashions a bit; occasionally (David Hulan has commented on this with regard to Trot) a drawing that he (probably) really meant to be one girl was mis-labeled. I think there may have been a switch to a younger model for Ozma, for instance, at or near the start of "Emerald City." In "Dorothy and the Wizard," the color plate of Ozma and Dorothy seems to show Ozma as at least a couple of years older and a good deal taller. (There aren't any "Road" illos that show comparative heights for them, but there, too, Ozma looks older in face.) In "Emerald City," a couple of the illos may show Ozma as perhaps taller and older (p. 57, coming forward to welcome Dorothy; color plate opposite p. 264 looking in Magic Picture), but not definitely so, while some of the illos show Ozma as clearly more childlike than in "Dorothy and the Wizard," and very nearly the same height as Dorothy, especially the color plate of the two of them with Glinda. I haven't checked to see if there are other places where there seems to be a definite shift to a younger version of a character, though. David Godwin: Thanks for the careful listing of characters visible in "Return." I don't have the videotape (I think I did, but can't find it -- a small relative may have done a longterm borrowing), but in addition to the "World of Oz" shot you mention, there's a shot used as the bacover of the Spring 1985 "Bugle," which includes a row near the front of the Guardian of the Gate (in green, as you'd expect), the Patchwork Girl, Rinkitink, and the Bumpy Man. You mentioned not being able to spot the Guardian or Rinkitink, among the characters Gehan listed, so maybe this shot wasn't actually used in the movie, or maybe it went by so quickly you didn't catch it on the tape. The shot also includes Polychrome (visible as her rainbow headdress) and next to her a young man I recall as being Tommy Kwikstep, although the multi-legs aren't visible in the shot, and I also recall the Frogman as being part of the corresponding scene in the movie, although he isn't visible in this shot. Of the other characters you mention, the young man who looks like a hippie seems to me to have definitely braids rather than shags, and so is probably the Braided Man. The white bearded man in red is probably the Shaggy Man (in his "rose-colored velvet" shaggy suit described at the end of "Road"), as the outfit seems quite shaggy. (Confusingly, though, he is holding a couple of packages, rather in the pose of the Braided Man offering his birthday present to Ozma.) The Little Persons, a man with beard and fur hat and a man with blue helmet -- I think that rather than individual characters, these are meant to be Munchkins; the "Bugle" shot shows them with two more Little Persons, both women, and taken as a group the four of them look to me as if their costumes are intentionally reminiscent of the fanciful Munchkin costuming of the MGM "Wizard." J.L. Bell: "Reuben in Oz" thoughts -- and perhaps a corresponding scrap of paper named Rachel? Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 15:25:53 -0500 From: Jill Moore Subject: Wizard of Oz Theme Park This is a fantastic article about the new Wizard of Oz Theme Park set to open in 2002!! You'll enjoy reading all about it!! http://www.sunpublications.com/sunnews/news1.html ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 01 Apr 99 10:55:38 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things MEANESS AND SELFISHNESS -- VASTLY UNDERRATED?: Lisa wrote: >Would you want to live in a land that is perfect all the time? No money >used? Come on...many people disagree with me, but selfishness is what >makes the world go round. If we simply operated on Tender Loving Care >for other human beings, nothing would get done. Ruggedo: I'm in the market for a new Chief Steward -- Care to apply? GOOD WITCHES: Gehan wrote: >If the GWN was already dis-enchanted when Jack Snow started writing -Magical >Mimics-, then who was the GWN who attended Ozana's welcome party? Jack Snow -- being a "Baum purist" -- disregards the Thompson and Neill books and so writes as though the events in those books never took place. Therefore, in his books the GWN is the GWN -- never some enchanted princess. OFF-TOPIC -- THE MELISSA VIRUS: A number of people (including some nice folks on the Digest) have sent me info. about the Melissa virus, but some of the info. I have received (*not* from the Digest) turns out to be an April Fool's joke. So I'm a bit confused now -- how much of this Melissa virus is a joke and how nuch is on the level... Can it really obliterate my hard drive??? Ozma: I outlawed April Fool's Day in Oz some years ago... St. Patrick's Day is still allowed, but *not* the pinching. -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave DaveH47@mindspring.com, http://www.mindspring.net/~daveh47/ Take the time to taste the honey on a summer breeze, Touch the love song every bird has learned to sing. Feel the sunlight as it warms you on the coolest day, And you'll feel a part of what we're gathering -- The senses of our world." -- The Bugaloos, "The Senses of Our World" ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 2 - 7, 1999 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:16:47 -0500 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: blown up in Oz David Hulan wrote of the storm in ROYAL BOOK: <> Fascinating theory. Mount Munch and Flathead Mountain share a somewhat volcanic shape (with an unusual upthrust), so there may well be active volcanoes close enough to Oz to be heard and seen. In fact, their ashes might have formed a great deal of the Deadly Desert. I have a small vial of Mount St. Helens ash on my desk, and it's a very fine, light-gray dust, not unlike some descriptions of the shifting sands. Robin Olderman wrote: <> We may be working with different uses of "hero": in the narrative sense of the character readers follow (usually a fellow child), and in the fortitudinal sense of someone who takes big personal risks to help others. In both senses, however, I think Zeb and Woot just barely qualify, though the former is overshadowed by Dorothy and the latter is so self-effacing that his personality remains invisible even after folks can see his body again. That's not to say they deserve to become princes, but neither does Ojo, and Thompson makes him one. I think Baum was content to reward bravery and loyalty with happiness; Thompson indeed felt these qualities usually deserved a crown. Dorothy saved large portions of Oz from tyrants and Ozma's court from Roquat before becoming a princess. Betsy and Trot never achieve that much for Oz. (Trot does a lot for Sky Island, and is consequently crowned twice there; she also deserves her honors from the Ozure Isles. Betsy's contribution to Rash, while getting her a royal ring, seems piddling by comparison.) Nor do the girls give any evidence in Baum's books of wishing to be princesses of Oz--Thompson just seems to assume they'd want to be. David Hulan wrote: <> As I recall, the Wizard has a black bag during DOROTHY & WIZARD, which implies he might have had it or one like it when he first came to Oz. His subjects may have associated the bag with his powers then. Relying on his incomplete sources, Ugu could have grabbed that bag based on that old tradition and lucked out in finding actual working magic inside instead of a few cups and balls (and perhaps nine hungry piglets). Another possibility is that Ugu stumbled across the bag in Ozma's palace, recognized the W.O.O. initials it sometimes seems to have, and added it to his haul; in reconstructing the crime later, after the bird had flown, Dorothy and her comrades may have assumed Ugu went after the Wizard's bag deliberately. Lisa Mastroberte wrote: <> Regardless of what you and I believe about selfishness, in discussing Oz it seems important to start with how Baum depicts the fairyland. Clearly things *do* get done in the country, despite Ozma's combination of acquisitiveness and generosity: people raise crops, craft artifacts, provide services. The closer they are to the fairy queen's capital, the more they live under her rule, and the nicer and more prosperous they seem to be. Indeed, the chance to participate in the sharing that runs the economy (at least in ROAD and EMERALD CITY) is one of the major motivators for ordinary Ozians to work. You're right that in judging the attraction of living in Oz we mustn't assume we'd be among the lucky subjects in Ozma's palace. (Though I can think of only four American emigres who don't live there, and they all live nearby: Bob, Notta, Jenny, and Bucky.) A fairer question may be whether one would like to live in a small, hemispherical, two-hearth cottage outside but within sight of the Emerald City; raise a crop which would all go to Ozma; and be able to obtain anything one would want for the rest of an infinite life from her storehouses. I suspect that the lack of mortality, disease, and many other woes means that Ozian psychology is fundamentally different from the psychology of mortals. (Living in a supernatural world may have significant effects on Ozians' outlook as well.) As Americans we'd have a hard time accurately imagining lives as ordinary Ozians because our psyches would have to adjust as much as our wardrobes. Notions like the need to leave your mark on this world before you die simply wouldn't apply. Similarly, from all that Baum tells us about Ozma, she'd be appalled at the idea that "selfishness is what makes the world go round." That disconnect makes it all the more important to look at what the books tell us about life in Oz. One could say that the fact that Ozma's economic system works is just as outlandish as a talking Scarecrow or popcorn snow. But faulting her for making it work against our experience, expectations, or principles seems a bit close-minded. It's like the old joke about an economist walking along the sidewalk, and spotting what looks like a ten-dollar bill on the ground; she walks on, thinking, "That can't be a ten-dollar bill, because if it were a ten-dollar bill, someone would have picked it up by now." Tyler Jones wrote: <> I think the biggest fault with Ozma's system of government is how its centralization makes it vulnerable. As several books show, capturing or removing only a few high-ranking people (Ozma, Wizard, Glinda) seems to cripple the system. So far a combination of luck and diligence has allowed Ozma's friends to restore her to power, but distributed authority still seems safer in the long run. Then again, I have the psychology of a mortal. Tyler Jones wrote: <> I have this vision of annual farmer-insect negotiations-- Farm Board Chairwoman: So in the region between Seebania and Troth, we'll set aside one-seventh of each field, and every tenth fruit tree. (Insects confer: Bzz bzz bzz bzz.) Weevil Delegate: My people want every eighth tree. Some of them have to lay their eggs, after all. Chairwoman: Will you at least present our proposal for a vote? Delegate: Oh, all right. But this will take a while. Everybug who wants to accept the farmers' offer, raise your right hands! Two, four, six, eight, ten,... Gehan Cooray wrote: <> Remember what little we learn about that farmer from ROYAL BOOK: when a big hole arises from nowhere around his beanpole, he just covers it up. Even though the Scarecrow has disappeared from that very spot, the farmer seems to make no inquiry. The Scarecrow may have gotten all the brains in that household, even before he first set out to see the Wizard. Gehan Cooray wrote: <> I've a hunch Baum constructed it out of the word "languid" on the same principle that might bring us "Lovelianne." David Godwin wrote: <> Nicely done. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 07:52:44 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Re:Ozzy Digest Lisa: Come on! Do you choose selfishness to peace and love? About 85% of the Ozites accept Ozma's rules, other than villains like Wutz,Ruggedo,Coo-ee-oh, and strange tribes such as Loonville,Untensia e.t.c. See how happy all the Ozites are in Oz? Unlike our miserable world...... David Hulan: I still think Shanower's illustrations are a zillion times better than Neills. I know, Ozma's face is horrible in the cover of -Enchanted Apples-, but she looks beautiful everywhere else. Glinda looks horrible in Neills darwings, but she looks exquisite in Shanower's books. Jack Snow: I guess it was silly of Jack Snow to ignore Thompsons books. As I said, I dont approve to _most_ of Thompsons works, but her stories are fun, and I accept most of them. Still, wont Jack Snow feel hurt if the other historians ignored his work? Hmmmm? The Return to Oz parade: I doubt that every single Baum character was in the parade. I'd love to see anyone spot out the Hammerheads,Fighting Trees,Underground Dragons e.t.c...... It was s big mistake to include most of the Baum characters and the Thompson characters at the end of the parade, without an explanation as to how they got there. (Characters like Shaggy Man and Cap'n Bill and Notta bit More) They left out Glinda and the GWN. O.k, if they couldnt compeat with Billie Burke, they could have atleast added the GWN. Surely Glinda will attend the parade? If there is no Glinda in Oz, then who told Dorothy the magic of the ruby slippers? Hmm? The Return to Oz film was not planned at all well...... Ruth Plumly Thompson: Did RPT write a note to her readers at the beginning of the book like Baum did? I have the Del Rey editions, and I didnt see any. Are there any published in the Reilly&Lee editions? Thanks, --Gehan Cooray =============================== "I think I've had a change of heart. The animal plant toxins had a unique effect on me. They changed my blood with aloe, my skin with chlorophyll, and filled my lips with venom.....One more thing, I'm POIson..... I'm natures arm! Her spirit! Her will! Hell, I am Mother Nature! And the time has come for plants to take back, the world so rightfully ours! Cause its not nice, to fool with Mother Nature!" --Poison Ivy (Batman and Robin. Warner Bros.) "My will is law!" --Princess Langwidere (Ozma of Oz by L.Frank Baum) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 21:10:07 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Gehan: There is no mention in the FF of any of the Good or Wicked Witches anywhere. However, there are hints of some of them being sisters and/or cousins in the non-FF books. People like the soap opera storyline where everything is connected to everything else, so they write things like this in. If the park is to be strictly MGM, there may not be a southern kingdom at all. There was no mention of the south in the movie. The time difference between the Wizards arrival and the GWNs conquest of Mombi was simply an error by Thompson from an Oz-as-literature point of view. From an Oz-as-history point of view, and using only the FF, it gets a little trickier. The only two explanations I can come up with are either that Tattypoo/Orin lost track of time, or there was another hertofore-unknown Good Witch in the Northern parts. For another explanation, let pick some nits. When the Wizard mentions that there were two Good Witches in the land, he did not specifically place them in the North and South. Ozma did, but that wa very early in her rule, and she may not have had a full sense of history yet. The Wizard may have referred to Abatha, the Good Witch of the East. Ozma may have assumed that he meant the Good Witch of the North, and they may not have analyzed their stories in great detail at that time. As for the GWN who attended the party in Snow's book, that was a case of Snow deliberately ignoring anything that Thompson and Neill wrote. I see no reason for an Oz-as-history explanation. He simply put here there to cancel out Thompson. It just depends on who you see as more canononical. For my part, I'd lean toward Thompson as the more accurate source. After all, Snow himself mistakenly merged two of Baum's orignal characters into one person. From most of your statements, though, you seem to favor Snow. While I never really liked the whole bean-pole story line from _Royal Book_, I don't think that it rises to the level of high crimes and misdemeanors. I will not vote to impeach RPT from the list of FF authors. Many of her story lines were excellent. Overall, I'd probably rate RPT as the best author of the FF, although there are some points about her works that don't sit well with me. Lisa: You're definitely correct that some form of selfishness and personal desire is what makes things happen in this world. It seems, though, that this necessity is much less in Oz. People there just don't seem to want very much apart from basic living. ##### Beware of Melissa #### Here's the straight dope on Melissa. This is a virus that seems to work via e-mail and the Microsoft Outlook program. It mails itself to you with an attachment. This is a word document. When you open it, it goes into Outlook, gets the first 50 names from your address book, and mails copies of itself to those people. This is how it spreads. Melissa does not appear to be destructive, but the high volume of mailings that it causes has forced some e-mail servers to shut down. It can only spread itself from Outlook, although it can be sent to any system. It appears to be almost gone, though. People can recognize it. The message is somehting like "Here's that document you asked for. Don't let anyone else see it". Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 2 Apr 99 08:28:44 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: continued GWN in Oz David Hulan: Interesting suggestion of a volcano as a possible cause for heavy darkness. I think Neill's bakery-volcano in "Lucky Bucky" is the only mention of a volcano in an Oz book? Or, no, there's one on Blaze's Fire Island in "Grampa." And the Fire-fall in "Hungry Tiger" and maybe the Thunder Mountain of Lightning Lake mentioned in "Wishing Horse" might be volcanic, too. // Soob the Sorcerer's magic is found on Polacky's ship in "Gnome King," but is mentioned as coming from the Island of Ashangabad. (Of course, Ashangabad isn't specifically mentioned as being in the Nonestic, but it seems likely.) Lisa M. Mastroberte: You're perhaps being unduly pessimistic in assuming that the perfection of Oz would get boring if one lived there a long time (and also in assuming that the cottagers who spend most of their work-time farming might be unhappy at not having the kind of opulent living quarters that Ozma does). Farming (with, as Tyler mentioned, good soil and climate and without much competition from pests) can be interesting work, and the play-time is probably sufficient to allow for a lot of additional activities. Neill's Oz books are in some ways not as good as most of the others, but one thing that's fairly strong in them is a sense of ordinary people in the Emerald City and in the four countries of Oz with a variety of activities in their lives (Jack Pumpkinhead's glee club, the family Q&A sessions at Number Nine's parents' house, women going shopping for new dresses, kids doing supervised graffiti on the walls, etc.). [Possible spoiler: next paragraph assumes knowledge of end of "Giant Horse."] Gehan Cooray: I don't think you checked the exact wording in saying that there's an inconsistency in having Orin have been turned into the Good Witch of the North a few years before the events of "Wizard" and the Wizard's arrival many years earlier. The Wizard doesn't actually say that all four witches, two good and two bad, were established in power and ruling the four countries of Oz when he arrived. He jumps from describing how he arrived and built the Emerald City to describing the witches as people he feared. In the absence of further explanation in the later Oz books, the reader might reasonably assume, as you did, that the four witches were already in power, including the GWN's overthrow of Mombi, before the Wizard arrived. But the text doesn't say so. RPT as Royal Historian assumed that there might have been changes in the ruldership between the time of the Wizard's arrival and the time when he'd completed his Emerald building program, and her assumption is consistent with what the Wizard actually says. Along the same lines, the presence of the GWN in "Magical Mimics" need not be inconsistent with the existence of Orin. It's true that Ozma, at the end of "Giant Horse," says that Orin is no longer the GWN -- but Ozma is thinking at that point in political terms, of the GWN as the Gillikin ruler. But the people (or narrative voices) who had known Orin as the GWN might reasonably go on calling Orin the GWN anyway. For that matter, if Orin remembered some of the magic she had known while in witch shape, she might go on practicing magic, and so would actually still *be* the GWN (although N in that case would mean North Munchkinland, not the Gillikin land). [end of spoiler, comment continued] Having the Scarecrow be the first to touch the beanpole is not particularly inconsistent, either. There's no reason to insist that the Munchkin Farmer would *necessarily* have done any research about a beanpole that mysteriously appeared on his farm. He might have thought of putting up a scarecrow in the first place because he noticed a convenient pole, and he might have thought someone else had put it up previously and not taken the trouble to find out for sure. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Oz Matters Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 08:23:38 PST Gehan: >Handy-Mandy and Scraps: >Its a pity that they didnt become friends. They have a lot in common. Like cloth hands, you mean? >Come to think of it, >none of the Oz characters(actors) in RTOZ are good >*.Mombi: Not at all the Mombi we find in the books. For one thing she >is not so old, and doesnt have that cunning look.... That's because she isn't wearing her own head. >*.Gnome King- Not at all the jolly old Ruggedo we find in the books I agree on this point. Since when are the Nomes rock giants? >*.Tiktok:Well done! "Return to Oz" was recently brought up on the They Might Be Giants mailing list, and someone mentioned Tik-Tok as a "satanic looking ticking thing." In response, I mentioned that he was a respectable creation of Smith and Tinker, and not Satanic at all. >I think they shouldnt have had Mombi in -RTOZ-. It would have been >nice to >see a vain young sorceress like Coo-ee-oh. They could have turned >someone >like Queen Anne,Langwidere or Jinjur into a sorceress too. It would >have been more interesting. Perhaps, but "Return to Oz" was basically a combination of _Land_ and _Ozma_, so the writers chose a villain from one of those books (and combined her with a semi-villain from the other). Besides, Mombi was the one who brought Jack Pumpkinhead to life. >I also think that Coo-ee-oh was a longer name and was modified into >three syllables. I seem to recall seeing an essay in which it was mentioned that "Coo-ee-oh" is a hog call. >This is my last week in colege for this term, and so I will *finally* >have >enough and more time to complete my site and advertise the RPG. We >should >hopefully start in a few weeks. I still need more characters.... I might be willing to participate. What characters have already been taken, and which ones are needed? >Are the WWW and the WWE sisters? Are Glinda and Locasta sisters? >Its >never mentioned in the books, only in the movie and other versions of >-Wizard of Oz- In _Wicked Witch_, it is mentioned that Singra is a cousin of both the WWE and the WWW. Mrs. Payes was probably influenced by the fact that they were sisters in the movie. >David Hulan: >Wasn't Peter made a prince? Yes, but I think he was also knighted by Belfaygor. -- May you live in interesting times, Nathan DinnerBell@tmbg.org http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:25:04 -0600 From: d.godwin@minn.net (David F. Godwin) Subject: Oz Gehan wrote, concerning RTOz: >*.Cowardly Lion: Why wont that creature talk? At the end, after Dorothy has already clicked her heels, everyone is saying good-bye. There is a long shot in which the Cowardly Lion is standing behind Dorothy. He opens his mouth, and a deep voice that is almost certainly the Lion says, "Bye, Dorothy." Then we get an immediate close-up of Dorothy and hear the Lion growl. >BTW: The name Langwidere sounds absurd! Why couldnt Baum find her a better >name? I believe the name is a pun for "languid air," which she has. >Know what you mean....The Glinda in the MGM movie was sillier than the >Glinda in the books. The Glinda in the gbooks thinks well and acts wisely, >unlike Billie Burke. They should have developed her character and choosen a >better, more beautiful actress..... My own opinion is that Billie Burke made a lousy Glinda but an okay GWN. Of course, the two characters are combined in the movie. Her only saving grace as Glinda is that they got the hair color more or less correct. Lisa wrote: >According to Tricia Trozzi, ALL the characters from the 14 Baum books, >as well a few from the Neill books (Jenny Jump is there) and RPT (yes, >that's Notta Bit More!). It is a huge scene, and Tricia said they are >ALL there, although many are VERY hard to spot. (Someone on my RTOZ list >said that the Wogglebug is there. Where, I have no clue. Back to the >video! I'll review it this afternoon.) That _all_ these characters are present is really hard to believe. That would mean, for one thing, that all the royal guests at Ozma's birthday party in _Road_ would be there, and I didn't see any of them. Is it possible that a lot of footage was cut from the film? Unfortunately, I can't get a freeze frame on my VCR without so much white noise that you can't identify anyone, and some of the scenes that include the most people are like a third of a second long. But it seems to me that I did catch a fleeting glimpse of somebody/something that could have been the Wogglebug. I did finally spot the Musicker, thanks to you. I guess I expected him to be fatter. But there seem to be an awful lot of people who are just ordinary citizens of the EC. Gehan wrote: >Ruth Plumly Thompson doesnt >think straight and that annoys me! _Royal Book_ was her first Oz book and she was just getting her feet wet. I think she went back in later books and tried to fill in some of the gaps and deficiencies. For example, in RB, there is no hint as to how Sir Hokus, if he is an Arthurian knight, got from ancient Britain to Oz or why he is there. This is all explained in _Yellow Knight_ (where he has nothing to do with King Arthur), but readers of _Royal Book_ when it first appeared would have had to wait another nine years for this clarification. Similarly, it's a mystery where the Camel and Dromedary came from until that finally gets explained in a later book. Ruth wrote: > The shot >also includes Polychrome (visible as her rainbow headdress) and next >to her a young man I recall as being Tommy Kwikstep, although the >multi-legs aren't visible in the shot, and I also recall the Frogman as >being part of the corresponding scene in the movie, although he isn't >visible in this shot. You can always identify Tommy Kwikstep by his hat even when his legs aren't visible. And yes, the Frogman shows up pretty clearly. And thanks for your comments and help about this scene. Dave: All I know about the Melissa virus is what I read in the newspaper. I got the idea that the worst it could do was fill up your e-mail storage - and that of your ISP and everyone on your e-mail mailing list. It doesn't erase anything. Anyway, you're apparently safe if you refrain from opening any attachments that say "list," and even then I think it only works in Microsoft's e-mail program, Outlook Express. Speaking of which, if you belong to any lists, such as Gehan's, it is a horrible mistake to have software that automatically answers e-mail when you are away for some period (the e-mail equivalent of voice mail). The automatic reply goes on the list and is in turn sent to you as a member of that list, which provokes another answer to the list until everyone on the list is flooded with zillions of copies of your "I'm not at home right now" message. I got this information from a guy who was starting up a list. Speaking of which, no one seems to have posted anything to Gehan's list in quite a while. War in Oz: Another new/old topic. Oz being some sort of utopia, we can hardly imagine any serious war taking place there. The closest we come to it in any of the FF is Jinjur's revolution, and that can be called "war" only by the most liberal definitions. The Gnome King's invasion doesn't count as a war because there is never any fighting. Ann doesn't get very far at all in her plans to conquer Oz in _Tik-Tok_. In _Glinda_, there is the threat of war, but no actual hostilities other than Coo-ee-oh's abortive attack that ends so poorly for her. *But* there must have been serious wars in Oz within living memory. Otherwise, what would be the function of the Tin Soldier? Why would any soldiers be needed at all? And most of all, how about Grampa's reminiscences and old war stories? With whom was Ragbad at war? Of course, the absence of any war in Oz PO (post-Ozma) can be partly explained by the fact that war is awfully pointless if you can't actually kill anybody (just "destroy" them). - David G. ====================================================================== From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:22:18 -0700 Administrative: The Ozzy Digest for March of 1999 has now been backed up, archived and is available on my web page http://tyler1.apprentice.com in the Land of Oz section. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== From: "Jeremy Steadman" Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 20:37:50 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-01-99 To coin a phrase: Mombi's threat to turn Snip into a sixpence coin doesn't mean money was still used in Oz--believe me, I'd hate to be turned into a shilling even though shillings aren't used for currency in the US! Langwidere: Well, some deer aren't so languid, I suppose . . . Animal speeds: I guess it's like the Tortoise and the Hare--the one who is slow but sure (like a human, relative to an antelope) would beat one who is fast but sprinting (like an antelope, relative to a human). Polacky: Does anyone else think this might have been a slur on people from Poland? Wishing you all many Ozzy dreams, Jeremy Steadman, Royal Historian of Oz kivel99@planetall.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/9619/ ICQ# 19222665, AOL Inst Mssgr name kiex or kiex2 "A good example of a parasite? Hmmm, let me think... How about the Eiffel tower?" ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 08:01:10 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Sir Hokus Tell me, is Sir.Hokus King Arthur's son or one of his nights? BTW, since -Royal Book- discussions seem to have ended, how about setting a date for -Kabumpo in Oz-? --Gehan Cooray =============================================== "I think I've had a change of heart. The animal plant toxins had a unique effect on me. They changed my blood with aloe, my skin with chlorophyll, and filled my lips with venom.....One more thing, I'm POIson..... I'm natures arm! Her spirit! Her will! Hell, I am Mother Nature! And the time has come for plants to take back, the world so rightfully ours! Cause its not nice, to fool with Mother Nature!" --Poison Ivy (Batman and Robin. Warner Bros.) "My will is law!" --Princess Langwidere (Ozma of Oz by L.Frank Baum) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:26:38 -0600 From: d.godwin@minn.net (David F. Godwin) Subject: Storm in Oz David Hulan wrote, with regard to the storm in _Royal Book_: >Perhaps the "storm" wasn't a storm at all, but a volcanic >eruption? And the booming wasn't thunder, but the bangs of exploding vapor, >etc.? That would explain the absence of lightning or rain. The eruption >could have been out in the Deadly Desert somewhere, so there'd be no >destruction in Oz proper. In that case, would there not have been considerable volcanic ash? Personally, I think it was a monstrous crow. - David G. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:48:34 +0100 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-01-99 Gehan: >Food in Oz: >Well, Ozites are NOT vegetarian as we can plainly see, for we have some >evidence that they eat meat. For ex: Mombi nearly cooked Pajuka the Goose in >-Lost King-. See? There's also the reference in _Wishing Horse_ to the way farmers had of looking at Pigasus as if they were reducing him to strips of bacon and slices of ham. And he and Dorothy meet a fisherman with a string of fish, which were presumably intended for eating. >For ex:Mombi threatens to turn Snip into a sixpence coin unless he keeps >quiet in -Lost King- and spend him at the first village they come to. Well, >maybe Mombi didnt know about Ozma's new laws, and maybe she thought that >Ozites still used money like in the old days...... Thompson says that the children of Kimbaloo went out every morning with buttons (boys) and flowers (girls) and came home in the evening with bags of coins, so I think we can conclude that money was used in that part of Oz, at least. Rogin >Zeb and Woot aren't genuinely heroic, but Peter and Speedy >are. I agree that Woot isn't, but I think Zeb is reasonably heroic on at least a couple of occasions, most notably in fighting the Gargoyles. Lisa: >Would you want to live in a land that is perfect all the time? No money >used? Come on...many people disagree with me, but selfishness is what >makes the world go round. If we simply operated on Tender Loving Care >for other human beings, nothing would get done. In the first place, Oz isn't perfect all the time; there wouldn't be any books if it were. I for one would be quite happy to live there. In the second, what's your evidence that nothing would get done if we simply operated on TLC for other human beings? If selfishness were truly what makes the world go round, who'd ever raise a child? Gehan again: >How can the Scarecrow's beanpole, rise from the Silver Island? I thought it >was an ordinary pole fixed by the Munchkin Farmer. Surely he would have done >some research if he saw a beanpole arise from nowhere. And even if it were a >magic beanpole, and if the spirit of Chang Wang Woe enters the first person >who touches it, then the spirit should have entered the farmer. Surely he >would have touche the pole before the Scarecrow? Ruth Plumly Thompson doesnt >think straight and that annoys me! I also cant stand the thought of our >jolly old scarecrow having the spirit of Chang Wang Woe. -Royal Book- is >totally un-fit. I didnt enjoy it much either. But then, by rejecting -Royal >Book-, all the Thompson books are rejected, mainly because of Sir Hokus of >Pokes. I would have assumed that it was all a bad dream which Dorothy had, >but the fact that Sir Hokus settled won in the EC rejects that. You can look at it either of two ways, but it seems to me that you're mixing them. From the Oz-as-literature POV you can object to logical inconsistencies in RPT's books, but in that case what's the meaning of "rejected"? To say "I don't like this book" is certainly reasonable, but there isn't anything about a work of fiction to reject or accept. From an Oz-as-history POV, if RPT is indeed a Royal Historian of Oz then the events in her books, however "un-fit," are the way things happened and the challenge is to come up with a rational explanation of them. You can argue that Baum was telling real Oz history and Thompson (and presumably the other FF writers) were writing fiction, but then you can't use anything from the later books in your vision of Oz. To get to your specific objections, the bean pole may well have been in the field when the Munchkin farmer acquired it, so he wouldn't know of its magical origins. The field might have belonged to a Munchkin who died, and no one was observing it at the time the bean pole appeared. This is consistent with the timing; the bean pole grew fifty years before the time of RB, but the Scarecrow wasn't put on it until 20-some years before those events. It is perhaps odd that no bird or animal chose to touch the pole during all that time, but maybe animals are able to sense that kind of magic and so avoided it. And there's no particular reason why the Munchkin farmer should have touched the bean pole himself in the process of hanging the Scarecrow on it - or at least, he might have touched it with the Scarecrow before he touched it himself. Of course, from a rational point of view we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that we're talking about a series of children's books by writers (including Baum) who weren't really concerned with logical consistency; that Oz is nevertheless a place with what the late Warren Hollister dubbed "three-dimensionality" is a tribute to their success in secondary creation even though that wasn't really what they were concentrating on. Dave: OFF-TOPIC -- THE MELISSA VIRUS: >A number of people (including some nice folks on the Digest) have sent me >info. about the Melissa virus, but some of the info. I have received >(*not* from the Digest) turns out to be an April Fool's joke. So I'm >a bit confused now -- how much of this Melissa virus is a joke and >how nuch is on the level... Can it really obliterate my hard drive??? As others will probably tell you, the Melissa virus is real, but it can't obliterate your hard drive, and in fact it's unlikely to have any significant effect on a home computer. What it does is send out e-mails to 50 people, if you have that many in your address book, or to everyone in your address book if you don't have 50. Because it can pyramid rapidly, it can do a number on network servers by jamming them, so if you're on a network it can cause a certain amount of havoc. It also only works if you're using Microsoft Outlook as your e-mail software; yet one more reason to avoid the products of Bill Gates's Evil Empire! :-) David Hulan ====================================================================== From: "Bob Collinge" Subject: Fw: Oz Mania Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:09:37 -0400 Can someone help this Oz fan? >Hi Bob, I intend on coming to your fiesta in April. The only movie that I dont have is the 1969 The Wonderful Land of Oz. Can I get that video anywhere? I saw the film when I was a kid and would love to have it to own. Please let me know if you need any volenteers. I know Im late but this is believe it or not my first time on the web. thanks, Ojo< Ojopjq65@aol.com ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 08:07:41 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Ozzy Animals Hi all! I was just thinking,how can..... Toto be the only dog in Oz? Billina be the only hen in Oz? Saw-Horse be the only horse in Oz? Surely, Oz being a fairy country, it should have every kind of animal. Think of farms without chickens or horses. What kind of meat do the Ozites have.....possibly pork and beef. Still, its silly to think of a country with no dogs or hens or horses. The only such country I've heard of, is in -Dick Whittington-, a land with no cats. Secondly, Dorothy tells Shaggy Man that Uncle Henry whips Toto in -Road to Oz-, and she tells "her gracious highness" Queen Coo-ee-oh that she whips Eureka. How can anyone be so cruel? I can imagine lashing a bull or a horse, but I've never heard of anyone whipping an innocent dog or a cat. And such small ones too. Any iedias? BTW, if Oz is a fairy country and all live things can talk, why dont plants and flowers talk? I know we dont consider plants as live things in English Litreture, but..... --Gehan Cooray ============================================ "I think I've had a change of heart. The animal plant toxins had a unique effect on me. They changed my blood with aloe, my skin with chlorophyll, and filled my lips with venom.....One more thing, I'm POIson..... I'm natures arm! Her spirit! Her will! Hell, I am Mother Nature! And the time has come for plants to take back, the world so rightfully ours! Cause its not nice, to fool with Mother Nature!" --Poison Ivy (Batman and Robin. Warner Bros.) "My will is law!" --Princess Langwidere (Ozma of Oz by L.Frank Baum) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 07 Apr 99 01:47:42 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things OZ AND RED DWARF: **** MINOR SPOILERS FOR RPT'S OZ BOOKS & THE NEW 8TH SEASON OF RED DWARF **** During the time Thompson was writing Oz books, the Ozites acquired quite a few items -- the all-powerful Magic Belt, the Wishing Pills, the Wishing Necklace, etc. -- that between them can pretty much do anything and provide a predictable cop-out quick-fix whenever they're in a tight spot. In the course of the new Season of _Red Dwarf_, the "Posse" have acquired quite a few items -- The nanobots, the Luck Virus, the Time Wand, etc. -- that between them can pretty much do anything and provide a predictable cop-out quick-fix whenever they're in a tight spot. Just an observation. :) *** END SPOILERS *** NON-OZZY COMPUTER WORDS: Thanks to everyone for the Melissa info. A question for Windows experts: Why is cut, copy, delete unreliable on single-lined text that was highlighted from left-to-right? Is this a bug in Windows 95? -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave DaveH47@mindspring.com, http://www.mindspring.net/~daveh47/ Take the time to taste the honey on a summer breeze, Touch the love song every bird has learned to sing. Feel the sunlight as it warms you on the coolest day, And you'll feel a part of what we're gathering -- The senses of our world." -- The Bugaloos, "The Senses of Our World" ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 8 - 9, 1999 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 16:27:05 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Money in Oz and the Land of Ev Even though we find little evidence that money is used in Oz in the Baum books,there is plenty of evidence in Thompson's books. *.In -Cowardly Lion of Oz- Mustafa sells all his stone lions and becomes rich *.In -Lost King of Oz- the Kimbles in Kimbaloo become very rich by their sale of buttons and flowers. They are only two simple examples. There are many more in the other books as well. But these are two main ones, as they gaina major profit by selling the items. Yet in -Road to Oz- Tinman says that money is never used in Oz. Maybe Ozma found it was not appropriate to live that way, and maybe she changed her rules. Another thing is, if the Land of Ev is located at the northwest of Oz, then Ozma should return to Oz from either the Gillikin Country or the Winkie Country right? Well then, what was Ozma doing in the Munchkin Country when she returned from Langwidere's castle in -Ozma of Oz-? I guess thats why the maps were drawn backwards with the Munchkins in the west and the Winkies in the east. Unless Ozma lost her way like Ruth Berman pointed out a few years ago. BTW, how do you pronounce the name Princess Langwidere. Is it pronounced Langwider, or Langwideya? --Gehan Cooray ============================================================================ === "I think I've had a change of heart. The animal plant toxins had a unique effect on me. They changed my blood with aloe, my skin with chlorophyll, and filled my lips with venom.....One more thing, I'm POIson..... I'm natures arm! Her spirit! Her will! Hell, I am Mother Nature! And the time has come for plants to take back, the world so rightfully ours! Cause its not nice, to fool with Mother Nature!" --Poison Ivy (Batman and Robin. Warner Bros.) "My will is law!" --Princess Langwidere (Ozma of Oz by L.Frank Baum) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 17:20:43 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Ozzy matters The Good Witch of the North: Here is a quote from -Wizard of Oz- which will tell you what I mean: Osacr tells Dorothy and the others: "Fourtunately, the wiitches of the north and south were good, and I knew they would do me no harm!" What did I tell you? This proves that there was another GWN before Orin was enchanted. I'm glad that Ozma told Dave that it was Locasta, butwhy didnt Thompson think that far? She didnt think straight in most of her books..... Ruth: I like your iedia that Orin may have still been called the GWN if she still remembered her magic and all that stuff, but she would have come to the EC with Ceeriobed and Jack Snow doesnt say that. Chris Dulabone told me that there have been some non-canonical Oz books in which Glinda's sister Belinda became the GWN after Orin, but Belinda was too young and so someone called Maggie took the job. Maybe it was one of them, I dont know. This is all from an Oz-as-History POV, but I know that Jack Snow was only trying to forget Thompson's work. But by doing so, he's confusing us all..... David Godwin: What? Billie Burke as the GWN? Noooooooo! The GWN we find in -Wizard of Oz- has much more scense that the squeaky Glinda we find in the MGM Movie. Maybe she's another one of those silly witches who get mixed up and muddled up very quickly. What do you say? LOL! Scarecrow's beanpole: I wanted to beleive that the beanpole was not magic at all at first, and that the Wizard who enchanted Chang Wang Woe simply said it was, just to raise the Silver Islanders hopes of their beloved emporer's return. But, trouble is, Glinda's Magic Rechord book says that the emperor of the Silver Islands really did return, and the GBR is usually correct. I still prefer to beleive that it was all a joke of the wizard who enchanted Chang Wang Woe, and maybe the GBR simply recorded what the Silver Islanders beleived.....Its really confusing, but thats the only reasonable answer which satisfies me. I think RPT tried to be too smart, but failed miserably. Hey, I'm just joking! No offense! Sir Hokus: I still havent read -Yellow Knight-. Maybe that will help me figure out the Sir Hokus mystery...... Tyler: Well, no, I'm not really favouring Jack Snow, but I just dont agree with some of RPT's iedias. Thats all! I wouldnt say that she was the best RHOZ(Royal Historian of Oz). I'd vote for Baum, but hey! Opinions are different! BTW, what did you mean that Jack Snow mixed up two of the Baum characters as one character? Nathan: Thanks for deciding to join my game! I have all the help I can get! I thought I posted a list of availble, or rather, unavalable characters, but maybe you skipped it or missed it. There are billions of characters who are available, and are far too long to list, so I'll just name the unavaible characters: Dorothy Betsy Trot Polychrome Ozma Scraps Captain Salt Captain Bill Eureka Bungle the Glass Cat The Adepts Jellia-Jamb Reebad (Bandit from -Ojo in Oz-) Jinjur Princess Langwidere Queen Coo-ee-oh Proffessor Wogglebug Tiktok Shaggy Man Woozy Ruggedo the *old* Nome King The Wizard who invented the hollow tube in -Tiktok of Oz-. (I cant recall his name. Sorry) Billina Oz Poll: I've planned a weekly poll on the Digest. Heres this weeks poll: If you could live in Oz, which part of Oz would you live in? (Choose from the Gillikin Country,Munchkin Country,Quadling Country and Winkie Country. Lets rule out the Emerald City, for lots of folk might want to live there) I'd choose the Quadling Country...... --Gehan Cooray ======================================================== "I think I've had a change of heart. The animal plant toxins had a unique effect on me. They changed my blood with aloe, my skin with chlorophyll, and filled my lips with venom.....One more thing, I'm POIson..... I'm natures arm! Her spirit! Her will! Hell, I am Mother Nature! And the time has come for plants to take back, the world so rightfully ours! Cause its not nice, to fool with Mother Nature!" --Poison Ivy (Batman and Robin. Warner Bros.) "My will is law!" --Princess Langwidere (Ozma of Oz by L.Frank Baum) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 11:37:18 -0400 From: Lisa M Mastroberte Subject: Coronation Sequence Gehan: <> Yes, she wrote a note to her readers. Personally, I like her letters to the reader better than Baum's; she seems more open to comments, (I always feel bad when I see her address...for some reason I wanted to write to her after I read -Kabumpo-) et cetera. <> Ok, let's go back to figure one: when you _first_ saw RTOZ, did you recognize all the Oz characters? Did you say "Wow...that looks like Polychrome or Johnny Kwikstep." I know the first time I saw it they were just normal Ozites. So in other words, the average person watching RTOZ in 1985 had no clue whatsoever where/who the Oz characters were, unless, of course, they read the books. <> Something, that really annoys me, though, is that in the books, everytime a person disagrees with Ozma, they are automatically made into the 'villain'. So, here's the conclusion: Ozma's economic system may work in Oz because it doesn't actually exist. Though it probably won't stop me from writing "Ayn Rand in Oz." :-) Peace!! -Lisa ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:23:46 +0100 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-07-99 J.L.: > Dorothy saved large portions of Oz from tyrants and Ozma's court from >Roquat before becoming a princess. Well, in a sense, but Billina was really the prime mover in the rescue of Ozma's court. It's true that it was Dot who took the Magic Belt from Roquat and used it to enable their escape, but only when Billina told her to. I've always thought Ozma made Dorothy a princess because she loved her rather than as a reward for what she'd done for Oz. >I can >think of only four American emigres who don't live there, and they all live >nearby: Bob, Notta, Jenny, and Bucky.) Shaggy has a suite there, but seems to spend most of his time wandering around Oz. (This is, incidentally, one of my justifications for making the interval between _Road_ and _Emerald City_ only a few months - Shaggy states that since he came to Oz he'd hardly been outside the EC, and I can't believe that an inveterate wanderer of his sort would have waited a whole year before starting to explore a new country.) And I don't think there's any evidence that Shaggy's brother lives in the palace, though there's none that he doesn't, either. I don't know if you'd count Bill the weathercock as an American emigre, but I believe he settles in Ragbad. >A fairer question may be whether one >would like to live in a small, hemispherical, two-hearth cottage outside >but within sight of the Emerald City; raise a crop which would all go to >Ozma; and be able to obtain anything one would want for the rest of an >infinite life from her storehouses. Or live and work in the Emerald City making clothes, publishing books, or whatever else those city-dwellers - who make up about 10% of the population of Oz - do as their contribution to the general welfare. >It's like the old joke about an economist walking along >the sidewalk, and spotting what looks like a ten-dollar bill on the ground; >she walks on, thinking, "That can't be a ten-dollar bill, because if it >were a ten-dollar bill, someone would have picked it up by now." That's specifically an "efficient-market" economist, not just any economist. Like supply-side economists, efficient-market economists endorse a theory that doesn't seem to have any close association with reality, however logical it may sound. >I think the biggest fault with Ozma's system of government is how its >centralization makes it vulnerable. As several books show, capturing or >removing only a few high-ranking people (Ozma, Wizard, Glinda) seems to >cripple the system. So far a combination of luck and diligence has allowed >Ozma's friends to restore her to power, but distributed authority still >seems safer in the long run. Then again, I have the psychology of a mortal. This same problem seems to occur even in the smaller kingdoms of Oz. If anything happens to the legitimate ruler, the successor almost invariably turns out to be a Baddie. You'd expect that there'd be more resistance to this than there seems to be - think of Jinxland, Flathead Mountain, Pumperdink (in _Purple Prince_), Seebania, Keretaria -even, to a degree, Oogaboo, though Ann isn't as bad as the others. Ragbad seems to do OK when Fumbo loses his head, but then there wasn't much for it to lose ( largely because Fumbo wasn't much of a king). And Regalia gets along OK without a king while Randy is on his quest, but they're apparently set up for that kind of situation; it's not an unexpected coup. Loved your picture of the farmer-insect negotiations! Gehan: >Did RPT write a note to her readers at the beginning of the book like Baum >did? I have the Del Rey editions, and I didnt see any. Are there any >published in the Reilly&Lee editions? Yes, usually if not always. I haven't checked all the books to make sure she kept up the practice throughout her tenure as RH, but she did in every book I spot-checked. For that matter, I know that Neill, Snow, and Cosgrove also wrote introductory notes, and I think the McGraws did. (Incidentally, that long signature quote from Poison Ivy is getting a little stale by now, especially since we usually see it two or three times per Digest; think you could drop it?) Ruth: >David Hulan: Interesting suggestion of a volcano as a possible cause >for heavy darkness. I think Neill's bakery-volcano in "Lucky Bucky" is >the only mention of a volcano in an Oz book? Or, no, there's one on >Blaze's Fire Island in "Grampa." And the Fire-fall in "Hungry Tiger" and >maybe the Thunder Mountain of Lightning Lake mentioned in "Wishing >Horse" might be volcanic, too. There's also Lavaland in _Captain Salt_, and wasn't the ogre imprisoned in one in _Pirates_? I'd have to check that. I don't think there's an active volcano in Oz proper, though. Nathan: >"Return to Oz" was recently brought up on the They Might Be Giants >mailing list, and someone mentioned Tik-Tok as a "satanic looking >ticking thing." I wonder if whoever mentioned it had read _Wicked_ and was confusing it with RTO. In it, "tiktoks" _are_ satanic ticking things. David G.: >This is all explained in _Yellow Knight_ (where he has nothing to do >with King Arthur), but readers of _Royal Book_ when it first appeared would >have had to wait another nine years for this clarification. Although anyone who knows anything about medieval history would know that Hokus is entirely inconsistent with Arthurian times (which, if Arthur was historical at all, was no later than 7th century). All that forsoothly speech, not to mention the kind of armor he's described as wearing, dates him to probably the 15th or 16th century - to the extent that it dates him to any real period of history as opposed to Scott-style romances. >War in Oz: >Another new/old topic. Oz being some sort of utopia, we can hardly imagine >any serious war taking place there. The closest we come to it in any of the >FF is Jinjur's revolution, and that can be called "war" only by the most >liberal definitions. The Gnome King's invasion doesn't count as a war >because there is never any fighting. Ann doesn't get very far at all in her >plans to conquer Oz in _Tik-Tok_. In _Glinda_, there is the threat of war, >but no actual hostilities other than Coo-ee-oh's abortive attack that ends >so poorly for her. *But* there must have been serious wars in Oz within >living memory. I think you could count the invasion by the Gnome King in _Pirates_, and even more so Mogodore's capture of the EC in _Jack Pumpkinhead_, as "wars," though there wasn't any serious fighting that we know of. Still, we know that many of the Ozites were captured, and I'd imagine that at least a few of them put up a token resistance. Grampa is described as a veteran of a hundred battles, which implies a fairly constant state of war in Oz in pre-Ozma days - if we assume that lifespans pre-Ozma were somewhat comparable to our own. I suspect that most of those "battles" were fights between ten or a dozen on a side, more comparable to a gang rumble than a war, but apparently whoever ruled the various regions of Oz pre-Ozma didn't have much control over most of their subjects. Gehan again: >Tell me, is Sir.Hokus King Arthur's son or one of his nights? Sir Hokus turns out to have no connection to King Arthur, but unless you want a spoiler for _Yellow Knight_ I can't say more. (And if you want the spoiler, I'll tell you in private E-mail, since others on the Digest might not.) >BTW, since -Royal Book- discussions seem to have ended, how about setting a >date for -Kabumpo in Oz-? Sounds good to me. >I was just thinking,how can..... >Toto be the only dog in Oz? >Billina be the only hen in Oz? >Saw-Horse be the only horse in Oz? I think we have to conclude that Baum was just mistaken in those statements. We know that there was a rooster in the EC at the time of _Wizard_, and unless it was a last survivor there were presumably hens around as well. Also, Dorothy eats scrambled eggs in the meal she has near the EC, which implies there were chickens around though I suppose they might have been goose eggs or something of the sort. I suspect Billina was putting on airs; she was pretty good at that. I don't think there's any statement aside from hers that she was the only hen in Oz. There may not have been any dogs or horses in or near the EC, though we know there were plenty of dogs and horses in View Halloo (in _Merry-Go-Round_); Chalk says he originated in Oz; there's Highboy; and there are horses in Corumbia and Corabia, though at the time Baum was writing they were all enchanted. I suspect other horses are mentioned in other books (there's a blue mule in _Scalawagons_, and where there's a mule there must have been a horse, or more accurately a mare), but those come to mind quickly. >Secondly, Dorothy tells Shaggy Man that Uncle Henry whips Toto in -Road to >Oz-, and she tells "her gracious highness" Queen Coo-ee-oh that she whips >Eureka. How can anyone be so cruel? I can imagine lashing a bull or a horse, >but I've never heard of anyone whipping an innocent dog or a cat. And such >small ones too. Any iedias? I expect the whipping was done with something like a willow switch, which stings but doesn't do any real damage. Corporal punishment in general was a lot more common back in the first half of this century than it is now, at least in the US. I know I got switched fairly often when I was a kid, not to mention occasional paddlings with bare hand (my father) or a hairbrush (my mother), and my family wasn't unusual. If they did it to kids, why be surprised that they'd do it to animals? David Hulan ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Oz Stuff Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 13:59:02 PDT J. L. Bell: >In both senses, however, I think Zeb and Woot just barely qualify, >though the former is overshadowed by Dorothy and the latter is so >self-effacing >that his personality remains invisible even after folks can see his >body >again. That's not to say they deserve to become princes, but neither >does Ojo, and Thompson makes him one. Yes, but Ojo's crown is hereditary, and not awarded based on merit. Gehan: >I guess it was silly of Jack Snow to ignore Thompsons books. As I >said, I >dont approve to _most_ of Thompsons works, but her stories are fun, >and I >accept most of them. Still, wont Jack Snow feel hurt if the other >historians ignored his work? Hmmmm? Well, based on what I know of Thompson's opinion of Snow, she's probably glad that he ignored her work. From an Oz-as-history point of view, though, I agree with you. >Did RPT write a note to her readers at the beginning of the book like >Baum >did? I have the Del Rey editions, and I didnt see any. Are there any >published in the Reilly&Lee editions Yes, the R&L editions do contain Thompson's letters to her readers. I don't know why Del Rey left them out (especially when you consider that they left Baum's letters in the books). Tell me, is Sir.Hokus King Arthur's son or one of his nights? I'm assuming you mean "knights," not "nights." As for your answer, I'd say that it requires a: ********************SPOILER FOR _YELLOW KNIGHT_********************** Neither, unless the King of Corumbia is named Arthur (in which case he's both) ************************END OF SPOILER******************************* >I was just thinking,how can..... >Toto be the only dog in Oz? >Billina be the only hen in Oz? >Saw-Horse be the only horse in Oz? Baum frequently made such sweeping generalizations, even when they contradicted what he had already written. There was a green hen in _Wizard_ and a green dog in _Land_. I suppose these animals could have died by the time that Billina and Toto arrived in Oz, but it seems unlikely. It's probably a good idea to disregard Baum's sweeping generalizations. Ruth: >I think Neill's bakery-volcano in "Lucky Bucky" is >the only mention of a volcano in an Oz book? Or, no, there's one on >Blaze's Fire Island in "Grampa." And the Fire-fall in "Hungry Tiger" >and >maybe the Thunder Mountain of Lightning Lake mentioned in "Wishing >Horse" might be volcanic, too. There's also the Lavalanders' volcano in _Captain Salt_. I'm not sure if any of these is close enough to Oz to have caused the "storm" in _Royal Book_, though. David Hulan: >*But* there must have been serious wars in Oz within >living memory. Otherwise, what would be the function of the Tin >Soldier? Why would any soldiers be needed at all? I suppose the Tin Soldier could have been a guard. I think it's likely that there were some wars in not-too-ancient hoztory, though. Jeremy: >Mombi's threat to turn Snip into a sixpence coin doesn't mean money >was still used in Oz--believe me, I'd hate to be turned into a >shilling even though shillings aren't used for currency in the US! Yes, but Mombi specifically said that she'd spend Snip at the next village after enacting the transformation. -- May you live in interesting times, Nathan DinnerBell@tmbg.org http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:22:36 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz ********** SPOILER FOR OJ O IN OZ ********** John Bell: In the strictest sense of Oz-as-history, Ojo never really "became" a prince. It turns out that he had always been one, and only now just found out. He did not receive his title as a reward for some deed, but instead he got it by right of birth, as they used to say. ********** END OF SPOILER ********** Battle of happiness: Dave Hardenbrook claims that Ozma has a 100% Job Approval Rating, while Gehan says that it is a slightly more modest 85%. We need to send in the folks from Gallup, or maybe John Zogby. :-) Gehan: A cynic would say that if Jack Snow wanted his works to be un-ignored by others, he would have intentionally left them in the Public Domain, which he did not. Still, his two books do not really impinge on Oz history in any major way. That is, Oz is pretty much the same after his books as it was before. He did not alter the ruling hierarchy, for example, nor did he change the role/persona of any pre-existing characters. For the most part, his books take place outside Oz, so that future authors, even if they specifically wanted to remain true to Snow, would in reality have little to worry about. David Godwin Wrote: > Speaking of which, if you belong to any lists, such as Gehan's, it is a > horrible mistake to have software that automatically answers e-mail when > you are away for some period (the e-mail equivalent of voice mail). The > automatic reply goes on the list and is in turn sent to you as a member of > hat list, which provokes another answer to the list until everyone on the > list is flooded with zillions of copies of your "I'm not at home right now" > message. I got this information from a guy who was starting up a list. Oh, yea gods, is this true! I had a similar experience with someone who is a member of another mailing list. We changed the program so that it would send auto-replies to everybody on the list except for the person who sent it. Gehan: ********** SPOILER FOR YELLOW KNIGHT ********** In _Kabumpo_, it was implied that Hokus was one of Arthurs Knights, not necessarily related to him. In _Yellow Knight-, we find that he has no relation to Arthur or England at all, but is rather from a heretofore unknown kingdom in Oz ********** END OF SPOILER ********** Gehan: You seem to be mixing the ideas of not liking a story based on the quality of the writing, and rejecting a book as not being "true Oz". There are several Oz books that I do not like at all, yet which I view as Historically Accurate. By the same token, there are several books that I greatly enjoy, yet which I must reject as being Accurate Ozzy history. The two truly are not one and the same. Gehan (round three): There are dogs, horses, etc. in Oz in the later books. From an Oz-as-history POV, I assume that Baum based his early statements on quick observations and Dorothy's information about the immediate area, and he must have assumed that things were the same all over Oz. The phrase "whip" has meant many things in history. Dorothy may have been referring to Henry and herself cuffing the animals when they misbehave as opposed to actual lashes with a whip, which, if done a lot, could seriously damage or kill a small animal. Gehan one more time: I don't know if it's ever stated that all living things in Oz can talk. As far as I know, it's just animals, and fish may not come under that definition in Oz. Dave: Cut Copy and Paste? I've never had any problems with these operations. Is there a specific software product that you're using? Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 12:25:29 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: More Ozzy Things I agree that the name Langwidere came from Languid+Dear or Languid+air, but Princess Langwidere is not at all languid. Someone said that the reason they choose Mombi as the villainess in RTOZ and not someone like Coo-ee-oh/Anne/Jinjur or Langwidere was because the story was adapted from Ozma of Oz and Land of Oz. Well, Jinjur is a character from -Land of Oz- and Langwidere is a character from -Ozma of Oz-. David Godwin: You said that Mombi doesnt look cunning because she doesnt wear her own head. Come on, she wears it soon after Dorothy steals her ruby key and the powder of life.... BTW, is Eric Shanower on the Digest? Thanks, Ciao! --Gehan Cooray ================================ "I think I've had a change of heart. The animal plant toxins had a unique effect on me. They changed my blood with aloe, my skin with chlorophyll, and filled my lips with venom.....One more thing, I'm POIson..... I'm natures arm! Her spirit! Her will! Hell, I am Mother Nature! And the time has come for plants to take back, the world so rightfully ours! Cause its not nice, to fool with Mother Nature!" --Poison Ivy (Batman and Robin. Warner Bros.) "My will is law!" --Princess Langwidere (Ozma of Oz by L.Frank Baum) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:21:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Calgary Herald Web Server Instance Subject: There's no place like home . . .unless you live in Liberal, Kansas, the proud home of Wizard of Oz-heaven The following URL was sent to you by earlabbe@juno.com: There's no place like home . . .unless you live in Liberal, Kansas, the proud home of Wizard of Oz-heaven Click on the following URL if it's hot linked, or copy and paste it into your browser's location/netsite field. http://www.calgaryherald.com/entertainment/stories/990403/2443726.html Additional comments from the sender: Article of interest. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:29:17 EDT Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission - Oz Theme Park From: "Earl C. Abbe" MIKE HENDRICKS: At last, a little Oz scrutiny By MIKE HENDRICKS - Columnist The Kansas City Star Date: 04/06/99 22:15 Wait, let's see that article again, only this time with my glasses on. Can that be? One of our fearless leaders is actually standing up to the Oz boys? Was that really Johnson County Commissioner Johnna Lingle saying Oz shouldn't get the Sunflower Army Ammunition Plant if Oz won't accept full responsibility for environmental cleanup? If I wasn't so cynical, I'd say this is a sign that the Oz theme park development is finally getting the scrutiny it deserves, if not in Topeka then at least in Johnson County. >From Day One the county's position has been that whoever gets control of Sunflower should accept all the land and be responsible for cleaning up all 9,000 acres. Oz had seemed to go along -- in its public pronouncements, anyway. Behind the scenes, however, Oz has been trying to accept less responsibility. Oz wants to buy the land in stages. If approved by federal and state officials, that would mean no assurance of a full environmental cleanup. "It's unacceptable," Lingle told a reporter last week. "The sole reason the county was supporting the (Oz sales tax) legislation was for the remediation of the entire 9,000 acres." OK, it wasn't exactly a searing attack, but it was something -- for a change. Months have zipped by with hardly anyone in a position of authority asking pointed questions about the $771 million plan to build the Oz theme park. In Topeka only two members of the Johnson County legislative delegation were willing to lie down in front of the Oz steamroller. Rep. Bob Tomlinson of Roeland Park and Sen. Karin Brownlee of Olathe voted against a bill that would allow Oz to use sales tax money to retire $250 million in bonds in the next 30 years. To be fair, other members of the delegation saw to it that the Oz bill had some safeguards -- requirements that the project pay school property taxes and that Oz not be allowed to pocket sales tax receipts above the project cost. But they voted for Oz, anyway, partly on faith. Faith that Oz might be good for tourism, and faith in the conventional wisdom that Oz is the only developer willing to acquire all 9,000 acres and clean up the environmental mess left by the Army. If not Oz, goes this theory, then someone else will come in and cherry-pick the least-contaminated land, which would leave the rest to be cleaned up by the federal government perhaps decades from now. Now we learn that Oz wants to pick some cherries itself. The plan is to buy the least-contaminated land now for the theme park, then take on the rest of the property later. Why? Because the developers can't afford up to $5 million for premiums on cleanup insurance. That's right, Oz's high rollers can't or won't raise what amounts to pocket change, less than 1 percent on a project that's priced at three-quarters of a billion dollars. All together now: Hmm. Is it any wonder people find parallels with an outfit called Trizec? Trizec, you'll remember, promised to redevelop Union Station if allowed to construct an office building next door. The building went up. Nothing was done for the station. Kansas City had to sue the developer to gain control so Union Station could be saved at a much greater cost. Oz is making promises that it will eventually clean up all the land. Johnna Lingle is right to be skeptical. Promises alone won't cut it. -- Mike Hendricks' column appears Monday, Wednesday and Friday. To reach him, call (816) 234-7708 or send e-mail to mhendricks@kcstar.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 19:02:35 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: The best movie ever! Is there anyone on the digest who thinks that the MGM Wizard of Oz Movie is the best movie ever? What do you guys vote as the best movie? I vote for: My Fair Lady Sound of Music Titanic I enjoyed the MGM movie, but I wont call it the best movie ever..... --Gehan Cooray ========================================= "I think I've had a change of heart. The animal plant toxins had a unique effect on me. They changed my blood with aloe, my skin with chlorophyll, and filled my lips with venom.....One more thing, I'm POIson..... I'm natures arm! Her spirit! Her will! Hell, I am Mother Nature! And the time has come for plants to take back, the world so rightfully ours! Cause its not nice, to fool with Mother Nature!" --Poison Ivy (Batman and Robin. Warner Bros.) "My will is law!" --Princess Langwidere (Ozma of Oz by L.Frank Baum) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 8 Apr 99 10:03:59 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: more good northern witchery of oz J. L. Bell: Nice riff on negotiations for weevil accommodation. David Godwin: Nice monstrous crow theory. Tyler Jones: You cite the conversation between Ozma and the Wizard (in "Dorothy and the Wizard") as backing up the idea suggested by his comments (in "Wizard") that the two Good and two Wicked Witches were all ruling in Oz at the time of his first arrival. It sort of does, but, then, it sort of doesn't. Ozma says that there were four Wickeds ruling up until the time of the Wizard's arrival. The Wizard (apparently) contradicts her, saying that "at that time" there were two Goods and two Wickeds. Ozma then (apparently) reverses herself and agrees with him, saying that there had been (i.e., before "that time," i.e., sometimes before the Wizard's arrival) the two overthrows of Wickeds by Goods. Perhaps Baum meant the reader to understand that Ozma was wrong (perhaps only slightly wrong, with the four Wicked ruling up until shortly before the Wizard's arrival) and that she was correcting herself, prompted by the Wizard's remark. But if that's what he intended, it isn't really clear. The sequence looks like an authorial inconsistency that needs to be explained away in some fashion. And it looks to me as if RPT was explaining it away by assuming that the Wizard's "at that time" doesn't mean "at the precise time I arrived" but "sometime during the time I was ruling, when the political divisions of the country became clear to me," and by assuming that Ozma's reversal does not mean, "Oh, you're right, the overthrows happened before you got here," but means that both Ozma and the Wizard are unsure of the exact dates of the overthrows except for being in agreement that the overthrows happened sometime after the Wizard's arrival. Given the inconsistency of what Baum has the Ozma and the Wizard saying (and the lack of timing details in "Wizard" to show if the all the comments in the sequence refer to events at the time of his arrival, or if they describe events following in a sequence after his arrival), RPT's assumption that the overthrow of Mombi could have happened fairly late during the Wizard's reign seems justifiable as a way of reconciling Baum's inconsistency. * [spoiler note: comments assume knowledge of "Giant Horse"] * Of course, if it's assumed that Ozma was wrong and that the Wizard was correcting her in that conversation, then it would follow that the Good Witch of the North was already ruling at the time of the Wizard's arrival. And if it's assumed that Orin was wrong about how much time had elapsed, and it had been 2-3 times longer than she thought, then the events fit well enough for timing. But reconciling Baum's inconsistency that way raises another problem in terms of "Giant Horse," because Philador needs to get born before Orin disappears, and needs to be still a child at the time of "Giant Horse." So if he's born that early, there needs to be some additional theory offered for how it happened that he stayed a child during the years when the Wizard (between the his arrival and departure) was aging from a young man to an old one and when the various other examples of aging-and-death-in-Oz-before-Ozma's-accession that have been noted occurred. It could be done (perhaps some special magic spell for Philador alone), but on the whole it seems to me that RPT's intended dating of events works well enough with Baum's (inconsistent) dating. Or, of course, the "hertofore-unknown Good Witch in the Northern parts" you mentioned as a possibile way of explaining the "Dorothy/Wizard" conversation would work, too, and the said unknown could be Dave Hardenbrook's Locasta.] [end "Giant Horse" comments] Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:08:21 -0500 From: d.godwin@minn.net (David F. Godwin) Subject: Oz Gehan wrote: >Tell me, is Sir.Hokus King Arthur's son or one of his nights? No, as you'll find out when you read _The Yellow Knight of Oz_. >Did RPT write a note to her readers at the beginning of the book like Baum >did? I have the Del Rey editions, and I didnt see any. Are there any >published in the Reilly&Lee editions? There is no message to the readers in any of the Del Rey editions of the RPT books, but there is starting with _Captain Salt_ in the BoW editions. As for _Royal Book_, the publishers tried to palm it off as having been written by Baum with a little editing help from Thompson, no naturally there would not have been any personal note from her to the readers in that one. >I was just thinking,how can..... >Toto be the only dog in Oz? >Billina be the only hen in Oz? >Saw-Horse be the only horse in Oz? These statements are made in various books, but they are flatly contradicted in others, and with no explanation. The real mystery is how Billina can keep having chicks if there are no roosters around. >The only such country I've heard of, is in -Dick >Whittington-, a land with no cats. How about Ireland, with no snakes? Or Minnesota, with no kalidahs? >Secondly, Dorothy tells Shaggy Man that Uncle Henry whips Toto in -Road to >Oz-, and she tells "her gracious highness" Queen Coo-ee-oh that she whips >Eureka. How can anyone be so cruel? I don't think she means it literally. No one in their right mind would use a whip on a cat or a small dog. She just means "punish" or "spank." David Hulan wrote: > From an >Oz-as-history POV, if RPT is indeed a Royal Historian of Oz then the events >in her books, however "un-fit," are the way things happened and the >challenge is to come up with a rational explanation of them. You can argue >that Baum was telling real Oz history and Thompson (and presumably the >other FF writers) were writing fiction, but then you can't use anything >from the later books in your vision of Oz. From the OzHist POV, this once again brings up the question of sources. How did the information that went into the books get from Oz to the various Royal Historians? If they saw only as through a glass, darkly, then their stories might not be altogether accurate. In Baum's case, we might say that he started out getting his information from Dorothy after her return to the USA, except for _Land_. Then, after ECOz, he started getting accounts by wireless, with the Shaggy Man as operator. As for _Land_, when Dorothy wasn't present, it's anybody's guess. Since the Wizard is given a bad rap in this book, the source might have been somewhat unreliable. Letters delivered by carrier pigeon from Mombi, perhaps pretending to be Ozma or Glinda? (Baum was a Theosophist. Mdm. Blavatsky, founder of the movement, claimed to get letters from the Hidden Masters. The method of delivery was that they would just suddenly appear out of thin air. Perhaps something similar occurred in Baum's case.) Then, after Baum passed away, did RPT still get her stories via wireless, or did she rely on some other (perhaps less reliable) method? I don't believe she ever hinted at it. Neill evidently got his tales through a crystal ball loaned him by a drunken genie. Rachel Cosgrove/Payes claimed to get her story (or stories?) from a talking bird who had been to Oz. Now, of course, news from Oz comes by e-mail. - David G. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 17:57:21 -0400 From: Mark Brittain [Non-Member of Digest] Subject: TWOO videotape differences Cc: BRITTANMA@appstate.edu Dave: I am doing some original research on TWOO movie, and, early on, became stumped by an oddity about available TWOO videotapes. This is because the the THX and 50th Anniv. videotape versions of the 1939 TWOO movie, are apparently slightly different from the pre-50th videotapes (which I think are all the same footage). According to my experiments with 2 TVs and 2 VCRs, 3 mysterious cuts appear in pre-50ths in comparison with the THX/50ths: (1) very beginning of Munchkinland, when Dorothy opens door (approx. 1 1/2 secs.); (2) very end of Munchkinland (approx. 3 secs.); (3) line "I'm just a very bad wizard" is deleted in Wizard presentation scenes (approx. 3 secs.). THX and 50th Anniv. also contain sepia-toned Kansas, while pre-89s are black and white. My guess: pre-89 videotapes are made from film of one of rereleases of the movie in the 50s, while Turner and company went back to the vaults and procured the original 1939 version without the cuts and with the true Kansas colors for the 50th Anniv. Do you have any ideas or know something I don't? Thank you for your time! baker b. BRITTANMA@APPSTATE.EDU baker b. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 21:40:35 -0400 From: David Levitan X-Accept-Language: en,ru Subject: Web site address change Hi, I changed my web page address from http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9075/ to http://www.bestweb.net/~dbl/oz/. If you can all please update any links you have, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, David Levitan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 23:11:40 -0500 From: d.godwin@minn.net (David F. Godwin) Subject: Oz errata A couple of second thoughts: In an earlier Digest, I mentioned Dorothy clicking her heels (while wearing the ruby slippers) before the Cowardly Lion speaks (?) in RTOz. Actually, it's Ozma wearing the slippers and doing the clicking at that point. In a current posting, I mentioned that none of the Del Rey editions of the RPT books had any message from her to the reader, which is true, but I now perceive that there _is_ such a message in the BoW edition of _Kabumpo_ (and one from Maud Gage Baum in the BoW _Royal Book_). In the note in _Kabumpo_, RPT says she just got back from the EC, which would certainly explain how she got the information for the story. Does this mean that Ozma used the Magic Belt or the Wizard's wishing pills to transport the Royal Historian (whoever it might be) from here to there and back again as the occasion demanded? That would blow my "second-hand information" theory (of accounting for contradictions) right out of the water. Oh well. - David G. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:33:49 -0500 From: d.godwin@minn.net (David F. Godwin) Subject: Oz coins Jeremy Steadman wrote: >Mombi's threat to turn Snip into a sixpence coin doesn't mean money >was still used in Oz--believe me, I'd hate to be turned into a >shilling even though shillings aren't used for currency in the US! Or in England, anymore. But neither is sixpence a US coin. Further evidence for the "RPT Europeanized Oz" theory! :) - David G. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 07:15:47 EDT Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission - Oz Theme Park From: "Earl C. Abbe" Worries over Sunflower cleanup dog Oz development bill By JIM SULLINGER - The Kansas City Star Date: 04/07/99 22:15 TOPEKA -- Some Kansas lawmakers are growing worried that Oz Entertainment Co. won't clean up pollution on all 9,065 acres at the Sunflower Army Ammunition Plant near De Soto. Others worry that too many regulations by the state could kill the Oz project entirely. With the legislative session winding down, they say, the next two days will be critical. "We're right on the teeter-totter," said Rep. Bill Mason, a Wichita Republican who leads a six-member panel looking at changes in the Oz legislation. In exchange for the cost of that cleanup, Kansas is preparing to turn over to the company 12 square miles of western Johnson County for development of a $771 million Wonderful World of Oz theme park and resort on 3,500 acres. Bills allowing Oz to collect almost all of the state and local sales tax dollars on most of the 9,065 acres have passed both the House and Senate, but in slightly different forms. A conference committee of three senators and three House members on Wednesday began trying to resolve those differences. No one from Johnson County is on that panel. When the six lawmakers met, one of the committee members, Rep. Jene Vickrey, a Louisburg Republican, said he wanted the bill to require Oz officials to purchase insurance to guarantee cleanup of the entire plant site before the land is turned over to them. That isn't part of the bill now. State officials estimate that such an insurance policy could cost the Oz developers an additional $3 million to $5 million. Oz officials want to take title to the land in stages and only buy cleanup insurance for the land they own. If the high-risk Oz project fails, Vickrey and other lawmakers fear, the rest of the site won't be cleaned up. "The intent by the House was the entire 9,000 acres be cleaned up," Vickrey said. "We ought to have this assurance." But others worry that placing too many restrictions on the developers could quash the entire project. Sen. Alicia Salisbury, a Topeka Republican and panel member, said the bill deals primarily with sales tax financing and that many of the development details should be left to a future redevelopment agreement. That would be negotiated between Oz and two state agencies -- the Kansas Development Finance Authority, or KDFA, and the Kansas Department of Health and Environment. It would include such details as the length of the cleanup effort and the environmental standards for various sections. For example, environmental officials say it is not practical for some areas to be cleaned up using residential standards, which are more stringent than industrial standards. Rebecca Floyd, KDFA's general counsel and a state negotiator, said the authority will insist that such an agreement require prepaid insurance for the cleanup of the entire site. She said Johnson County commissioners would have veto power over any agreement between Oz and the state. Dana Fenton, Johnson County's lobbyist, said the county opposes piecemeal cleanup at the site but has not taken a position on the Vickrey amendment. While backing the concept, the state finance authority opposes such a provision being written into law. Some members of the legislative panel worried that it could tie the state's hands during negotiations. Bud Burke, a lobbyist for Oz, said there may be a way to buy insurance that guarantees the cleanup of the entire site but doesn't require the entire cost to be paid in advance. "That option just wouldn't be available," Burke said, if Vickrey's suggestion becomes law. "Oz has given and given and given and agreed to amendment after amendment," said Burke, a former state senator from Olathe. "We need to trust the state agencies to do the job." Burke, who also has a contract to lobby for Johnson County, said he wasn't certain what position Oz officials would take on the Vickrey proposal. He also said he wasn't sure that county commissioners had taken a position. If Oz and the commissioners take opposite sides, Burke said, he would resign his county lobbying post. Other amendments discussed by the six-member panel would further protect the state and local officials from liability for the cleanup if the Oz project failed. To reach Jim Sullinger, Johnson County political and government reporter, call (816) 234-7701 or send e-mail to jsullinger@kcstar.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 09 Apr 99 11:40:01 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things OZ POLL: Gehan wrote: >If you could live in Oz, which part of Oz would you live in? Gillikin Country. I want to live with the Adepts! :) >Is there anyone on the digest who thinks that the MGM Wizard of Oz Movie is >the best movie ever? 'Fraid not me. >What do you guys vote as the best movie? My "short list": Citizen Kane Thelma and Louise Singin' in the Rain Contact The Thief of Bagdad (Korda's) It's a Wonderful Life Lost Horizon Ninotchka 84 Charing Cross Road Hopscotch Hot Millions A Passage to India Beauty and the Beast (Cocteau's) The Lady Eve THOMPSON AND _KABUMPO IN OZ_: Lisa wrote: >Yes, she wrote a note to her readers. Personally, I like her letters to >the reader better than Baum's; she seems more open to comments, (I >always feel bad when I see her address...for some reason I wanted to >write to her after I read -Kabumpo-) et cetera. I liked how Baum titled his notes "To My Readers" as opposed to RPT's "Dear Boys and Girls" (the former acknowledges adult Oz fans). David G. wrote: >In the note in >_Kabumpo_, RPT says she just got back from the EC, which would certainly >explain how she got the information for the story. Does this mean that Ozma >used the Magic Belt or the Wizard's wishing pills to transport the Royal >Historian (whoever it might be) from here to there and back again as the >occasion demanded? That would blow my "second-hand information" theory (of >accounting for contradictions) right out of the water. It seems to me odd that RPT would be invited to Oz whereas the great discover of Oz himself would have to rely on wireless telegraph. Frankly, I don't believe it for one second. I don't think any Historian made it to Oz (in their lifetimes of course -- afterward, however...). And FWIW, my info from Oz is E-mailed to me from Jellia and the Adepts. BCF: Speaking of _Kabumpo in Oz_, someone suggested that the time has come to set a date for discussion. Okay, how about two weeks from Monday (Apr. 26)? BTW, I'll just warn everyone: This will be the last Oz Book of Current Focus for some time that will be fairly easy for you to come by (i.e. that you can get from Books of Wonder or one of the large book chains)... From here on in, if your library doesn't have them, you'll have to order them from the International Wizard of Oz Club. (The next after _Kabumpo_ will be _The Cowardly Lion of Oz_ if you want to get a head start.) SOS: Okay, I need some help from you all. I suppose many of you ( well, maybe not :) ) are wondering "When will Dave's book about the Good Witch of the North be published??" Well, one of the reasons for the delay is that I've hit a roadblock regarding the cover picture: I (not unreasonably, I think) think a book about the Good Witch of the North should feature the Good Witch of the North on the cover. Chris however wants the cover to be graced by "familiar" Oz characters (e.g. Ozma, Dorothy, the Scarecrow, etc, etc.). So I'm asking you all if you can suggest a "compromise" design for the cover that might show the GWN, the Adepts, Dan, *and* other, more readily recognizible Ozites without creating a picture that looks too cluttered. If someone can come up with a design that I use, I'll send them a free copy of the book when it comes out. -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave DaveH47@mindspring.com, http://www.mindspring.net/~daveh47/ Take the time to taste the honey on a summer breeze, Touch the love song every bird has learned to sing. Feel the sunlight as it warms you on the coolest day, And you'll feel a part of what we're gathering -- The senses of our world."