] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 30 - MAY 1, 1999 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:11:42 -0700 From: Jellia Jamb Subject: Re: Ozzy Things Gehan wrote: >Jellia Jamb: >Jellia, how does your email address happen to be JelliaJamb@mindspring.com. >Shouldnt it be something like ozmail.com or something. Well, Dave recommended MindSpring, so that's what I use. (I *believe* Glinda's on AOL though I'm not sure.) >Jellia,why dont you ask Ozma to transport all the Digest members to Oz? I've >already thought of another Oz adventure. If you have Ozma transport us to >Oz, I'll disenchant Coo-ee-oh and once she regains her own form she'll want >revenge on the Su-Dic and the Adepts. Wouldnt that make another thrilling Oz >Adventure? Sounds good to me, although Ozma is conservative about letting folks into Oz these days... Normally there are many forms that must be filled out in quintuplicate and standing in line in drafty passages for hours. But as the Royal Maid of Oz, I'll see what apron strings I can pull... With a wink and a smile, Jellia. ====================================================================== From: "Jeremy Steadman" Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:11:33 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-29-99 My favorite Oz book: EMERALD CITY wins by a long shot. I guess I just liked the coming of Dorothy to Oz forever when I first read the book as a child, and that preference has just stayed with me. Eggs and cake: As I said before, the composition of the eggs would change when cooked. This is much the way that while pure sodium and pure chlorine are each very poisonous--but almost everyone can consume table salt with no problem... <> Ah--but perhaps we do: radio waves at a frequency we can't catch... Until next time, Jeremy Steadman, Royal Historian of Oz kivel99@planetall.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/9619/ ICQ# 19222665, AOL Inst Mssgr name kiex or kiex2 "A good example of a parasite? Hmmm, let me think... How about the Eiffel tower?" ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:25:49 -0500 Subject: Best/Worst FF of Oz From: "David F. Godwin" X-Priority: 3 Gehan: I hate to be a conformist, but my favorite book in the FF is undoubtedly Lost Princess. The one I like the least is Scalawagons. RTOz again: If any of the following entities are in this scene, they must be only in the longer version: Hungry Tiger Hank Wogglebug Sawhorse Jinjur Woozy Glinda Tin Soldier Lavender Bear Trot Betsy Button Bright and so on and so on. Somebody said Jenny Jump is in this scene. How could she be identified if she weren't jumping? - David G. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:43:48 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: out on a limb in Oz Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding! Ruth Berman and Tyler Jones replied to my trivia question about Nick Chopper's chopping correctly [i.e., with the answer *I* had in mind]. The question was: <> Dictionaries define "limb" as an arm, leg, or wing, which eliminates the 41+ animals our heartless friend makes headless. But "limb" can also refer to a tree branch. (David Godwin had that answer too, but looked away at the last moment.) I was therefore thinking of the first Fighting Tree as the "creature" who lost a limb. Some might read "creature" to refer to any living thing, in which case the answer would be the first of the trees Nick chops along the Yellow Brick Road. Ruth Berman wrote: <> No question publishers can use their professional judgment to produce awful covers. Look at any British book catalogue! I think with beloved books we're all fond of the cover on the edition we first read, and dislike nearly anything that replaces it. For instance, Penguin is issuing Wodehouse paperbacks without Ionicus cover art. I despise them. Yet I must acknowledge that Wodehouse's mid-century novels first appeared with cartoon drawings, so Ionicus's style probably looked all wrong to their original readers. I grew up with the "white cover" cover of ROAD, which shows Dorothy and friends reaching Jack Pumpkinhead's cottage. It seems much more enticing than the first edition's dull portrait of familiar Oz characters. Yet I like the posed picture on the "white cover" EMERALD CITY better than either the travelers' departure (first edition) or Ozma on the Sawhorse (later editions). The 1980s Odyssey paperback reissues of Eager may will be an exception to my rule--they're horrors however one comes to them. Gehan Cooray wrote: <> Then in DOROTHY & WIZARD Baum makes Omby Amby two different characters all in himself: the Soldier in WIZARD and LAND, and the private/general in OZMA. The Soldier returns, fully bearded and without name or rank, in PATCHWORK GIRL. Neill adds to the confusion by drawing pictures of the Guardian of the Gates in ROAD and PATCHWORK GIRL that look nothing like the WIZARD/LAND conception. In sum, there was a lot of confusion about these gents before Jack Snow. His mix-up is hard to fathom because of his deep immersion into Oz, but he shouldn't bear all the blame. Tyler Jones wrote: <> A nearly convincing argument, but I'd choose Chalk instead of his master. The horse did all the heavy lifting (physical and mental) involved in conquering Oz. And he seems more ethically grounded, if that's not wishful thinking. Gehan Cooray wrote: <> Then, to be brutally frank (and not disputing your estimate of books you have read), you're not qualified to judge the worst in the Reilly & Lee canon. And I say that despite being an Oz fan with special fondness for the Neill books. About KABUMPO, Ruth Berman wrote: <> Indeed, one quality of Thompson's little monarchies is that everyone (author, reader, characters) seems to know how small kingdoms in fairy tales are *supposed* to be. The royal households' vocabulary and quirks make them comic, but we still see centuries of European tradition behind them. Usually a Thompson palace is populated by characters struggling to keep up with inherited images: the kings try to be dignified, the princes brave, the generals bold, the advisors wise, the servants competent, the elephants stately. [Queens usually succeed at being pretty or maternal, but not much else.] But something's rotten in the state of Pumperdink, or Ragbad, or Kereteria, and there must be a quest. Then, at the end of these books, the ruling family has moved closer to the traditional ideal, and we rejoice that the royal order is restored and affirmed. The queer folks in Baum's little nations, in contrast, might simply say, "Hereditary monarchy? Princes marrying to carry on the line? What nonsense! We organize our society by drawing lots. And whoever does the best sketch of the lot with the palace on it gets to be the Panjandra that month." Ruth Berman wrote: <> The Scarecrow in ROYAL BOOK, Scraps in GRAMPA, and Jellia in OZOPLANING are other Baum-created and Thompson-elaborated characters who refuse crowns. But that doesn't make them any less royal. A person who turns down an offer of membership in the highest-ranking social club in town doesn't lose status; in fact, she might gain it. Ruth Berman wrote: <> After learning from OZ-STORY how Thompson had written earlier Pumperdink stories, I began to see KABUMPO as the Oz book in which she spread her wings. In ROYAL BOOK she was still writing under Baum's name, using his early characters as her protagonists, addressing a mystery he left behind. But KABUMPO is her own tale. She starts right off with her own place and people (and heffalump). The cover of ROYAL BOOK displays only WIZARD characters; the cover of KABUMPO shows but one familiar face and four new ones. That said, I haven't gotten farther than the cover on this re-read of KABUMPO, having been immersed in pseudonymous Baum instead. You go on ahead; I'll catch up. David Godwin wrote: <> You mean you don't hear tHE V0ICES?! J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:44:44 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Ozzy Things Tyler: I'm sorry that you're leaving the RPG but atleast you didnt have any major characters. BTW, I disagree with you on your iedia of Skamperro ruling Oz. He is so lazy and so laguish.... Oz Poll Results: I'm happy to announce that most Oz fans thought that Jinjur would make the best Ozzy ruler out of the conquerors. She is one of my fav. Oz characters..... Jellia Jamb: Jellia,why dont you ask Ozma to transport all the Digest members to Oz? I've already thought of another Oz adventure. If you have Ozma transport us to Oz, I'll disenchant Coo-ee-oh and once she regains her own form she'll want revenge on the Su-Dic and the Adepts. Wouldnt that make another thrilling Oz Adventure? Someone raised a question as to wheather there were any Oz books in which the Witches of the East and West come to life and claim revenge. In -Father Goose in Oz- the Wicked Witch of Oz comes to life and claims revenge. Also, in my upcoming Oz Book- The Lost Queen of Oz- Polychrome and her sisters meet the Witches of the East and West in the Land of the Dead...... David(Godwin): Sorry it was all my fault. I didnt put the correct subscribing address to my RPG. Send a blank message to ozzyroleplaying-subscribe@egroups.com and you will receive a welcome message along with the gam rules,regulations e.t.c. BTW, who were the characters you wanted to play? Was it Tiktok and Ruggedo? Lisa: Well, most of the Del Rey covers seem to be good but some could have been better. I dont have the Baum books by Del Rey buit I have the first nine Thompson books by Del Rey. The following books by Del Rey should have better covers: *.Royal Book of Oz(It only shows Scarecrow and the Wogglebug) *.Grampa in Oz (Gorba's garden looks horrid in the cover and Princess Urtha looks like Poison Ivy on Batman) This weeks Oz Poll: While waiting for the resulsts of my best&worst FF Oz book poll, heres a poll for this week: If Ozma gave you the chance to meet just a few Oz characters, who would they be? I'd like to meet: Jinjur Coo-ee-oh Princess Langwidere The Good Witch of the North(Locasta) A good name for the Ozzy Digest: Someoneelse has already used the name:"Ozma Digest!". How about:"The Wizard of Oz Digest?" Untill next time! --Gehan ============================================ "In all the world there's no place like home.......execpt Oz!" ====================================================================== From: "Christopher Straughn" Subject: Pingarese Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 04:08:10 PDT I was re-reading Rinkitink, when I stumbled upon a passage mentioning "symbols of the Pingarese language" or something like that. Does anyone take this as meaning Pingaree has it's own language? Baum was clearly not referring to the English alphabet. And if Pinagaree speaks its own language, then do Regos, Coregos, Rinkitink and/or Boboland speak this language? Just curious for your opinions. Chris in Turkey _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ====================================================================== From: "March+S.+ Laumer" Cc: DAVEh47@mindspring.com Subject: help wanted with (g)nome kings Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 05:13:02 PDT X-Sender-Ip: 195.67.149.233 to all participants in the O.D.: a practising author needs research assistance. this is an appeal to all buffs to supply following needed info.: when, where, & under what circumstances do the 2 nome kings, roquat/ruggedo and kaliko, appear for the last time in the canonical oz books?....will be grateful for all advice at: laumer@excite.com _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Ozzy Matters Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:36:48 PDT Robin: >+Who is the Soldier with the Green Whiskers? He's a fuffer named > (shudder) Wantowin Battles. Nuthin' royal about him, either, but I >think we'd've been stunned if there *had* been! Well, he was one of the people on whom the royal cloak was tried in _Lost King_. Actually, this is a bit odd, as I generally picture the Soldier as being taller and skinnier than the others on whom the cloak was tried. (Tora and Sir Hokus are thin, but I don't think of them as being quite as lanky as Omby Amby. _Royal Book_ identifies his weight as 125 pounds, which is less than I weigh, and I'm pretty thin, and probably not as tall as the Soldier.) Gehan: >BTW, does Baum actually say that the GWN is Glinda's sister? No, Baum never gives any indication that any of the witches are related to one another. It was the MGM movie that identified the two Wicked Witches as sisters, and the Good Witches did not receive similar treatment (since there was only one Good Witch in the film). >In -Magical Mimics- Betsy promised to bring flowers for >TollyDiggle and I cant imagine her bringing flowers to a woman with a >bad temper. Why not? They might help to cheer her up. SeraMary: >i have a question was there ever an oz book where the wicked witch of >the west and or east came back to life and seeked out revenge ? I believe that there is an Emerald City Press book (_Father Goose in Oz_, perhaps) that features the return of the WWW. I've also seen this idea explored in at least one short story. Lisa: >The "Ozma Digest" doesn't sound too bad. :) People might think it's a forum for discussing the radio telescope (or whatever it was) that sought for signals from other planets. Also, wasn't there a mention of a band named Ozma on the Digest a while ago? David Godwin: >The obvious answer is the head of the wildcat who's attacking the >Queen of >the Field Mice, but I have a feeling that's not it. Too easy. A quick >review of the book fails to reveal anything else, however, except >trees. >He >accidentally steps on a beetle, but that's not chopping. I vote for >the >wildcat. The wildcat was beheaded, and I think a distinction was being made between heads and limbs. Dave Hardenbrook: >While we're on pronounciations, how do you all pronounce "Aslan"? >Most _Narnia_ adaptations seem to say "Ass-LAN", but that always >sounds to me like a computer network for donkeys. :) My dad said >"AS-lan" when he read the books to me, and that's what I use. I've always pronounced it the same way as you and your father did, and it was pronounced that way on a PBS adaptation of _The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe_ that I saw. -- May the light shine upon thee, Nathan DinnerBell@tmbg.org http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:28:03 -0500 (EST) From: Subject: Jack Snow on _Bewitched_ The IMDb says he played himself in "Samantha's Shopping Spree" 4/17/69, which is after he died. Isn't that strange. =================================== Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! "Love is not a positive emotion that begins in us and ends in the positive response of someone else. Love is divine energy that comes from God and has no end." --Eric Butterworth ====================================================================== From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 00:12:02 EDT Subject: Oz Jeremy: Very true. Some things do have their chemical structures changed by cooking, some more than others. You can change back and forth between ice and water fairly easily, but have you ever tried to un-hardboil an egg? Gehan: Baum never said that any of the witches were related. It was only other authors, in and out of the FF, that created the soap-opera like affair where everybody was related. Glinda: "So, you're really my sister-in-law's nephew's cousin's aunt?" Orin: "Well, it's not quite THAT simple" Gehan and the weekly poll: Best of the FF: _Land_, _Ozma_, Kaumbumpo_, _Captain Salt_ Worst: _Road_, _Tin Woodman_, all of Neill, possibly except _Lucky Bucky_. Lisa from "The Family Guy", er, I mean Rhode Island :-) Yes, the WIcked WItches of East and West have come back a few times, although the Wicked Witch of the West seems to come back more often. I don't think they've both ever come back at the same time, though. Chris Dulabone: I'll have to go with Chris on this one. The fact is, that there are only a few Universally recognized Oz characters out there, and unless they appear on the cover, they will likely be skipped over. If I were to see a book with Captain Salt and Ree Alla Bad on the cover, I'd prepare for a grand swashbuckling adventure, but who else would? Ruth: RPT's kingdoms really fall into two categories. First, there's the "We're going to enslave you and turn into creatures just like us", whirlwind of really bizarre citizens that the adventurers meet, battle and escape in one chapter. Then there are the "cozy" kingdoms like Pumperdink and Ragbad. I like the second type and tolerate the first to an extent. Aslan is near: I've always pronounced it like Dave's dad: AZ - lan. As the world turns, so comes the son of the Emperor Over the Sea. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 15:45:34 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Locasta and the Three Adepts of Oz. Dave: Is the -Locasta and the Three Adepts- cover settled with? When do you hope to get the book published? I cant wait to read it..... Thanks, --Gehan ============================================================== "In all the world there's no place like home.......execpt Oz!" ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 15:14:45 -0500 Subject: Oz & Kabumpo From: "David Frank Godwin" X-Priority: 3 Mirror: Who writes the lead story in the Emerald City Mirror every issue? Has this person written any Oz books? If not, they should. The stuff I'm reading here is a lot better than some of the FF - very readable, entertaining, and well put together. One thing I particularly like is that the author makes an effort to reconcile past contradictions in the FF rather than blithely creating new ones as so many of the Royal Historians did. Kabumpo: There were a lot of things I did not like about this book: 1. Kabumpo - He could be considered an apt symbol of RPT's elephantine fascination with royalty. 2. The name "Pompa." When I first read the book, I got him mixed up with the Prince Pumper. 3. Pumperdink - The first in a long series of multiplying small medieval kingdoms unnecessarily. 4. Wag - yawn; Uncle Wiggley in Oz 5. Peg - a true grotesque, not nearly as appealing as Pinocchio 6. The silliness and large number of the truly irrelevant IEs, which prove annoyingly distracting during the journey of Kabumpo and Pompa. 7. The business with Ruggedo and his headgear - silly and at the same time disturbing. OTOH, this was a lot better book, IMHO, than Royal Book. Aside from the IEs, it was well plotted and made some sort of sense. The device of the proper princess worked well. It is, I think, undeniable that RPT got better over time. - David G. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 May 99 13:49:28 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things FAVORITES: Favorite FF: _Patchwork_ -- IMHO this is the most whimsical book, and I love Scraps! _Tin W._ -- Ozma is an assertive and take-charge ruler for once in the FF. _Scarecrow_ -- The Ork, Old Blinkie, and a love story! _Ozoplaning_ -- Starring Jellia Jamb as herself! _Merry-G-R_ -- An interesting change-of-pace: A mediveal atmosphere. And for once a *boy* visitor to Oz who *stays*. Least Fav. FF: _Wonder City_ -- The mother of all rigged elections (Ozma should have won by more than *one* vote!) _Giant Horse_ -- In which the Good Witch of the North is written out of the series _Ojo_ -- In which Ojo is written out of the series _Yellow K._ -- In which the Sir Hokus is written out of the series _Kabumpo_ -- In which the Ozma's potential as a romantic lead is written out of the series SNOW IN APRIL: Scott wrote: >The IMDb says he played himself in "Samantha's Shopping Spree" 4/17/69, >which is after he died. Isn't that strange. Are you sure this is the same Jack Snow...? It seems to me the IMDb has mistaken two people with the same name as one-in-the-same person before, though I can't think who it was offhand... KABUMPO: David G. wroye >There were a lot of things I did not like about this book: > ... > >7. The business with Ruggedo and his headgear - silly and at the same time >disturbing. 8. No explanation of how Ruggedo regained his memory. (Although there *will* be in _Locasta_!) 9. Ozma's "I will never marry" sermon, rendering my writings "sacriligious blasphemy". -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave DaveH47@mindspring.com, http://www.mindspring.net/~daveh47/ Take the time to taste the honey on a summer breeze, Touch the love song every bird has learned to sing. Feel the sunlight as it warms you on the coolest day, And you'll feel a part of what we're gathering -- The senses of our world." -- The Bugaloos, "The Senses of Our World" ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 2 - 6, 1999 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 22:12:07 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: AH ZMAH OF OZ J. L. Bell listed among characters who refuse crowns: <> Gee, I got GRAMPA mixed up with GNOME KING. Better than getting Grampa mixed up with Ruggedo, at least. March Laumer asked: <> Someone in the Nome-tracking bureau will no doubt be on top of this, but I think Ruggedo is last seen in HANDY MANDY as a potted cactus, and Kaliko in LUCKY BUCKY "locked inside his throne." Books with rhyming titles seem to be particularly unlucky for Nome kings. Christopher Straughn wrote: <> Baum did indeed seem to give Pingaree its own language, or at least writing system. And there does indeed seem to be no communication gap between Inga, Rinkitink, and the people of Regos and Coregos. Inga even enjoys Rinkitink's poetry, which would be even harder to do in translation than directly. (Bilbil might have learned the Rinkitink language out of necessity.) Furthermore, once Baum made RINKITINK an Oz book, the language that those characters speak became the language Dorothy speaks, too, and thus the language Ozians speak, and the very language his readers were reading. I think this undercut his original intention in mentioning the Pingarese language, which was to make the island more exotic for his readers. David Godwin wrote: <> The lead story is written by a *different person* each issue: by Cap'n Bill, by Rinkitink, by Tik-Tok, and so on. It says so right in the newsletter. That answer may not satisfy you, but it sounds like THE GLASS CAT OF OZ would. Scott Hutchins wrote: <> Well, BEWITCHED was a strange show. But the simplest explanation is that Jack Snow the author never appeared in movies or TV shows, Jack Snow the performer did, and the Internet Movie Database therefore has no reason to differentiate the two. Martin Amis the critically acclaimed novelist, on the other hand, did act in the pirate movie A HIGH WIND IN JAMAICA as a sullen-looking child, and therefore appears in the IMDb as both actor and writer. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 08:44:24 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Ozzy Things John Bell: Actually,Scraps refused to be Queen in _Gnome King_ and not _Grampa_. She isn't even mentioned there.... Poll results: It appears that each book has its fans. Lots of folk outside the Digest say that John Neill's books are the worst and I think its the same on the Digest as well. This week poll: While waiting for my:"If You could meet an Oz Character" Poll Results,heres this weeks poll: *.Who do you like more:Alice from -Alice in Wonderland- and -Through the Looking Glass- or Dorothy? To be quite honest,I prefer Alice to Dorothy. I think Alice and Trot would make good companions. *Who is the best out of the three:Dorothy,Betsy or Trot? I prefer Trot. Aging in Oz: Even though Trot says that she's 10 in -Giant Horse- I think she's really about 7. Maybe she preffered to stay 10 once she came to Oz but I think that she's 7. In -Through the Looking Glass- Alice tells Humpty Dumpty that she's 7 years and six months and she has lots of scense for a year old. More scense than Dorothy too I guess. I think that Trot is 7,Dorothy 8 and Betsy 9. Oz Timeline: I was just going through a few Oz Books to refresh my memory the other day when I came across -Road-. Jack's first head spoiled in Januray,his second head spoiled in October and his third head spoiled in April the next year,the same year that -Road- took place. So,this means that the events in -Land- happened two years agowhen you see the dates in which Jack's heads spoiled. So Dorothy's aging line would fit in too. Here's my new Dorothy's aging theory: 1st Year(1897):The Year in which -Wizard- occured. Dorothy is 5. 2nd year(1898):The Year in which -Land- took place. Dorothy is 6 3rd year(1899):The Year in which -Ozma- and -DotWiz- took place. Dorothy is 7 4th Year(1900):The Year in which -Emerald City- occured. Dorothy is 8 Also, if -Rinkitink- started as a non Oz book in 1905,the story would have taken place before 1905 too. I think the Ozzy Timeline would fit that way..... Glinda: Glinda doesnt seem to care much about troubles that arouse in Oz.For instance: *.She didnt do anything when the Witches of the East and West conquered Oz. If the power of good is stronger than the power of evil she could have got help from Locasta and dealt with the Witches of the East and West.Instead,she waits for Dorothy to do everything. *.When Jinjur conquered Oz,she waited for the Scarecrow to come begging for help. She told the Scarecrow that she knew about Jinjur's conquest and that she doesnt want to do anything because Jinjur claimed herself Queen of Oz. Why didnt she go to the Emerald City and stop Jinjur right away? *.If she had the magic record book since -Emerald City- she would have obviously known about the Nome King's plan to destroy Oz. Why didnt she do anything instead of waiting for Scarecrow to come with an iedia? *.Why did she send Scarecrow to Jinxland to stop Blinkie and King Krewl. Couldnt she have handled Blinkie herself? *.She doesnt seem to care about the Flathead/Skeezer war in -Glinda-. Why send Ozma and Dorothy to stop it? Cant she handle the Su-Dic and Coo-ee-oh herself? Jellia Jamb: Well, if Ozma agrees to transport us all to Oz, please make sure not to do so untill you see me dressed in something good. I dont want to come to Oz in my pyjamas. LOL! Dave: I'm still receiving the Digest issues at fauna87@hotmail.com. Was the subscription address changed back to my regular address? Thanks. Untill next Time! Aloha! --Gehan ================================= "In all the world there's no place like home.......execpt Oz!" ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 14:11:41 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Bloopers L.Frank Baum has made a few mistakes in -Emerald City- which I just recalled. *He said that the Nome Kingdom was to the north of Ev to the east of Oz and he said that it was near to the Winkie Country. Did he forgot that the Winkies are in the west? *.Guph tells King Roquat that Glinda's castle lies to the north of the Emerald City,even though it is to the south. Maybe Guph confused Glinda with the Good Witch of the North! *.Guph seems to know more about Oz than Roquat since he tells the Nome King all about the Wizard,Glinda and Ozma e.t.c. Then why did he ask Roquat wheather the Ozites were happy and contended,good people? Surely he should know that too! *.Uncle Henry and Aunt Em suddenly have the cockney accent which they havent have in -Wizard- and -Ozma-. *.Dorothy and her friends passed a purple boundary before getting to the Winkie Country. But if they went to the Quadling Country,everything the boundary should have been red. It appeares that Baum confused the four Country locations. Its as if the Winkies are in the east,the Munchkins in the West,the Quadlings in the north and the Gillikins in the south.... *.Ozma says that Glinda placed the forbidden fountain in the Emerald City centuries ago. But there was no Emerald City centuries ago. Ofcourse through -Lost King- we learn that there was another kingdom where the Emerald City was before. Maybe the wizard destroyed that kingdom to make the Emerald City but maybe he didnt destroy the Forbidden Fountain. BTW:How do you guys pronounce Roquat? I prononounce it as Rookart. Untill next time! --Gehan =============================================== "In all the world there's no place like home.......execpt Oz!" ====================================================================== From: "Christopher Straughn" Subject: Aslan Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 07:50:57 PDT This is getting more than slightly off subject, but I thought you might find it interesting that "Aslan" is a Turkish word meaning "lion". The correct pronunciation in Turkish is "uss-LUNN". Incidentally, the only other Turkish word I've noticed in the Narnia Books is Tash, which means "stone" in Turkish. Chris on Exchange in Turkey _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ====================================================================== From: Sduffley@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 18:02:56 EDT Subject: Oz Favorites I realize I tend to be a bit silent when it comes to posting, but if it's not too late to toss in my two cents on the "FF Favorites Poll" ... J.L. Bell wrote: <> Perhaps the poll should be refined to query: "For those who have read all of the FF, which Oz books rank as your most favorite/least favorite?" Since I tend toward the democratic, we should simply ask anyone responding to the poll to also state how many of the FF s/he has read. ... A similar poll was run in the Bugle back in the late 60s or early 70s (I believe the results were printed in a "Best of the Baum Bugle", and the results again referenced in Dan Mannix's fine article "Ozma, Tik-Tok and the Rheingold" in the Spring '78 issue). "Ozma" topped the list among the select few who had read the entire series, with "Wizard" a favorite among those who had read ten or less of the books. It's probably safe to say that in 1999, with the bulk of the canon available in one form or another, a lot more of us have read all 40. (And I really shouldn't go around referring to Bugle articles from the 70's, since I'm not quite so old and crusty as all that.) In any event, my own humble opinions: Favorites: -- Magic of Oz: unrepentant villains; the whimsy of the magical word that the author refuses to print for fear his readers will use it; and dire peril from the Magic Flower! ok, ok, there's that trite hooey at the end about the birthday party, but otherwise this is the Oz book I've read and re-read for pure enjoyment more than any other; -- Glinda of Oz: gloomy, but tightly plotted; the imagery of the Skeezers' domed isle rising and sinking (and Neill's accompanying artwork) always captured my imagination; -- Cowardly Lion: I've heard other Digesters diss this one recently, but it was the 1st RPT book I read as a young child (and what a thrill it was to locate a post-Baum Oz book in the barren terrain of the 1970s), and that fact alone counts a lot for me. Least Favorite: -- a close tie between "Hidden Valley" and "Shaggy Man". Difficult to tell which one is duller, more poorly written, and/or least imaginative. Even Neill at his worst (Wonder City) is livelier and full of clever touches. Best Written (sorry, I'm adding new categories): -- Merry Go Round. Hands down. No question. (My opinions on this are recounted at length in the Spring '90 Bugle -- sorry again for the cross-references!). Most overrated: -- Wizard. Yes, it's sacrilege ... please hold back on the flames, folks ... Wizard was the last Baum book I read. As ground-breaking as it is, with many important themes, I find it slow-going and the writing hopelessly blah. Re-reading it with my 8-year-old two years back, he wasn't particularly impressed, either. -- Land. Yeah, so Tip, the boy whose adventures I've followed throughout the story and with whom I've so closely identified turns out to be ... not just a girl, but the missing princess of Oz? Whoaaaa, Dr. Freud, make room on that couch for me! (I'll never forget the shock that revelation registered on my son's face when we read that one!) That plot twist is akin to our modern-day Hollywood-Special-Effects -Blockbusters, where story substance is not nearly as important as shocking the audience. ... Many readers seem to have shared my opinion that it was unfair to unload Tip that way. I'd better shush for now ... Sean Duffley ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 17:45:06 -0500 Subject: Oz things From: "David Frank Godwin" X-Priority: 3 Kabumpo: Dave wrote: >8. No explanation of how Ruggedo regained his memory. (Although > there *will* be in _Locasta_!) I had always assumed (in the various books) that the effects of the Waters of Oblivion wore off after a few years. I stated previously that I did not care much for Peg Amy in this book, but that's just as well. *****SPOILER***** She seems to be the first in a long line of characters whom RPT slated for extermination by disenchantment. *****end SPOLER***** Gehan wrote: >Sorry it was all my fault. I didnt put the correct subscribing address to my >RPG. Send a blank message to ozzyroleplaying-subscribe@egroups.com and you >will receive a welcome message along with the gam rules,regulations e.t.c. >BTW, who were the characters you wanted to play? Was it Tiktok and Ruggedo? Yes, but also (and mainly) Cap'n Bill. I tried this revised address (thanks) and got back a request to confirm by choosing "reply" and sending a blank message, which I did, but I have not yet received any rules, regulations, or acknowledgement. What did I do wrong this time? :( J. L. Bell wrote: > But >"limb" can also refer to a tree branch. (David Godwin had that answer too, >but looked away at the last moment.) If I only had a brain. - David G. ====================================================================== From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 23:14:25 EDT Subject: Oz Gehan: That, my friend, is the whole point, at least from a member of the radical right :-) I believe that when the lead "gummint" figure is lazy and do-nothing, the people prosper. :-) That is, if I interpreted your question correctly. I assumed that you asked "If somebody MUST conquer Oz, who would you pick?" as in the lesser of two evils. You may have actually asked "Who, among the standard villains, would be the best ruler?". In that case, I'd pick either Skamperoo again (knowing that Chalk would be his adviser) or maybe Jinjur. This is based on my earlier assumption that under her rule, Oz would see a massive decentralization, since I do not believe that she could exert much power beyond the Emerald City. Meet the Press: Gehan's poll question: I'd like to meet the GWN (all of them), the Wizard, Glinda and Jinjur. I'd also like to meet Polychrome, but (ahem) in a rather different situation. :-) Christopher Straugh: There is no indication that multiple languages were spoken in _Rinkitink in Oz_. They may have had a unique written language, and spoken the same basic language that everybody else does in Baumgea. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== From: "Bea & Herschel Premack" Subject: Fw: for the Ozzy Digest Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 22:13:12 -0500 X-Priority: 3 Dave Sent this message the other day and not sure you received it so sending it on again. Thanks, Bea ---------- > From: Bea & Herschel Premack > To: DaveH47@mindspring.com > Subject: for the Ozzy Digest > Date: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 12:12 AM > > Greetings...We have been away from South Dakota on and off for almost 3 > months and I am just catching up with past Digests. In the next week or so > I will begin to fill you in with details of next summer's L Frank Baum Oz > Festival, the Dakota Heritage. Plans are progressing well but there are a > lot of details that need confirmation. > Anyway, in December we were in Israel and the first bookstore we went into > had WOZ in Hebrew. Of course, I had to buy it. Does anyone know where I > might find copies in any other languages? Are there any current > publications? Any suggestions? > Thanks, > Bea Premack ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 08:32:04 -0500 Subject: More Oz From: "David Frank Godwin" X-Priority: 3 Gehan: >If Ozma gave you the chance to meet just a few Oz characters, who would >they be? I don't know exactly how many "a few" is, but here's my top ten, more or less in order: Ozma, Dorothy, Glinda, Trot, Cap'n Bill, Scarecrow, Tin Woodman, Tiktok, Cowardly Lion, the Woozy. RPG: I did receive the RPG rules and regulations around 8 o'clock Sunday night, so my whining was premature. For some reason, though, it took about 12 hours from confirming my subscription to receiving that message. I don't know if that's usual or not. Anyway, all's well now. - David G. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 3 May 99 09:43:58 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: Wizardry in Oz Jeremy Steadman, J. L. Bell, Lisa Mastroberte: Interesting, what a variety of eggless cake possibilities you turned up. Enjoyed John's riff on airline food for nomes. J.L. Bell: You're right that characters can be made to travel, and the choice has more to do with the attractiveness of the character than the plot problems. What I was thinking of as plotting problems (difficulty of imagining something for Ozana to do that would happen outside her garden, for instance) is probably another aspect of the character's attractiveness (Ozana's garden is maybe more interesting than Ozana herself?). SeraMary/Lisa 22: As Robin Olderman and Tyler Jones were saying, the title of "Royal Historian of Oz" basically ended with the closing of Reilly & Lee. (Of the authors published by the IWOC Club, RPT, Cosgrove, and the McGraws already held the title, and Dick Martin probably gets included as an extension of being already the "Royal Artist of Oz" to illustrate the McGraws' R&L work -- although he objected when an article he wrote for the "Baum Bugle" about the process of writing his "Ozmapolitan of Oz" was headed "Notes by a Royal Historian," because he didn't feel the title appropriate for him. None of the various authors published by Emerald City, Buckethead, etc., have been generally referred to as RHs of Oz. The IWOC is going to publish a book by Gina Warwick, and it remains to be seen if she will be generally referred to as RH, but I suspect not.) It may be unfair to use a casual email letter as a sample of what you would write formally -- but it looks from this note as if you would probably need to spend a lot of time working on straight grammar and spelling. Are you in school? Have you talked to a teacher about wanting to write and asked for advice? David Godwin: Thanks for the shot-by-shot listing. LionCoward [Chris Dulabone?]: I'm sorry that you felt the discussion of possible cover art mocked you. I think you over-reacted to humorous tones of some comments, though. It doesn't seem to me that any of the humor was mocking -- rather, the people were seriously discussing what makes up good cover art. (Whether the general comments being made would be helpful to the specific situation is another question, but the different reactions might perhaps at least help you and Dave in clarifying where you disagree over the cover and in looking for ways to come to agreement.) Christopher Straughn: The reference to a Pingarese language does make it sound as if Baum was thinking in terms of a different language spoken there (perhaps a leftover from the original ms., written before he decided to make it an Oz book). Still, it might be taken as a description of a non-Roman alphabet being used to spell English (assuming English to be the language commonly spoken in Oz and the surrounding countries -- RPT's books say "Ozish" is the same as English; Baum's do not specify, except, of course, that Dorothy&compatriots have no trouble understanding Ozites). Or perhaps at one time Pingaree used a language different from the language of the continent, and the book is in that language. Or perhaps they all actually speak different languages (English, Ozish, Pingarese, Evese, etc.), but magic keeps anyone from noticing the fact -- but this "explanation" seems unreasonably complicated! March Laumer: Kaliko last appears in "Lucky Bucky," when Bucky and his whale swim through Nome territory. Ruggedo last appears in "Handy Mandy," when he is turned into a jug, although he plays a part in "Lucky Bucky" and "Magical Mimics" because of things done in the past. He is referred to briefly in "Shaggy Man" and "Merry-Go-Round" (also "Forbidden Fountain"), but does not take part in events in those. An additional "Kabumpo" comment -- there seems to be a continuity gap when Ruggedo walks off with the castle. Everyone is worried, except the Wizard, who is serene and seems to have some kind of a plan. When the narrative cuts back to the castle, the Wizard is not mentioned again. I wonder if RPT meant to have him do something later in the story and forgot about it, or if the single sentence was inserted by editorial request to keep this popular character in view and make sense of the handsome full-page portrait of the Wizard Neill had supplied. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 10:36:15 +0100 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-22 thru 05-01-99 Vacation has left me with three Digests to respond to. So let's get started... 4/22: Nathan: >In _Purple Prince_, Kabumpo runs from Jinnicky's domain to the desert >(presumably staying in Ev the whole time), and then crosses the desert >into the Winkie Country. I couldn't remember whether that desert crossing ended up in the Winkie Country or the Gillikin; I know they got to the latter rather quickly. J.L.: > Since the original Oz books' heyday, children's book cover art has become >much more dynamic, especially on paperbacks. A "posed" image, such as the >picture of Glinda, Dorothy, and Ozma on GLINDA, wouldn't cut it anymore. That cover style was pretty typical of Neill; most of his covers were similarly "posed." About the only ones that weren't were the original for _Emerald City_ , maybe _Magic_, _Giant Horse_, _Pirates_, _Speedy_, _Captain Salt_, and _Scalawagons_. (I haven't seen the cover of _Cowardly Lion_ lately, so I'm not sure about that one, though as I recall it was a posed shot of Notta, Bob Up, and the lion.) The ones I mention are the only ones where the characters on the cover are actually doing something other than mugging for the "camera." Even some of those - _Magic_, _Speedy_, and _Scalawagons_ - illustrate something that never happened in the book. Gehan: >Instead, I'll simply swallow one of Oscar's >wishinh pills and wish to be the greatest sorcerer in all Oz. Thats a >million times easier! There's a big question in my mind as to whether that would work. How could a pill invented by one magic-worker act to make someone else a better magic-worker than the one who invented the pill? It doesn't compute. Besides, the fun is to a great extent in the learning; I doubt if I'd want to actually _do_ that much magic. >I still prefer to beleive that the events in -Magical >Mimics- took place before Thompson's books, but someone said that that would >be impossible, since Edgar Pole invented the lost pine boy in -Story Blossom >Mountain- in the 1930's. That's Edgar Bergen, not Pole. Of course, if you consider that the America of the Oz books is also in a parallel world that has a different history from ours, then you can arrange the chronology of the books pretty much to suit yourself. >If one of the Ozzy conquerors had to finally conquer Oz and rule Oz atleast >for a few months, who would you like it to be? I'd say Jinjur, Queen Ann, or Skamperoo, none of whom was particularly nasty. Most of the others (Ruggedo, Wutz, Mombi, Strut, the chocolate general, etc.) would have oppressed the ordinary Ozites as well as removing the rulers. Mogodore is a marginal case; he's worse than Jinjur or Ann or Skamperoo, but not as bad as the others I've mentioned. I wouldn't count Coo-ee-oh as an "Ozzy conqueror"; she doesn't seem to have had any ambition to extend her rule beyond the Skeezer country, though within her domain she was one of the nastier rulers. Same would go for other local villains like the Su-dic, Mooj, Blinkie, Krewl, Mustafa, Glegg, Faleero, etc. Jeannine: Welcome to the Digest! Hope to hear more from you soon. David G.: >As for learning magic, remember that "With great power there must also come >great responsibilty" (Spiderman). In the case of Glinda's other pupil, the >Wizard, he is always dashing off to ride half the length of Oz in a great >hurry on the Sawhorse (ouch!) to fetch his black bag or to tell Glinda >about a crisis. I don't think that maybe three times in 40-some years is "always." He does the round trip twice on the Sawhorse in _Lost Princess_, but when else does he dash off anywhere in a great hurry, other than by magical means? I think I could live with that... Danny: >Did you get Kalidah (kalEEdah or kalEYEdah) and Lurline (lurLEEN or lurLINE) ? I've never heard "kalEEdah"; the variants I've heard have been KALidah and kaliDAH. (I say kalEYEdah myself, because if it was supposed to be KALidah I think Baum would have spelled it "kallidah," and "kaliDAH" sounds to me as if the plural ought to be "kalidot." :-)) Gehan again: McGraw certainly respected Thompson, but I don't see any evidence in her books that this implied any rejection of Baum. _Merry-Go-Round_ doesn't use any Thompson characters at all, aside from peripheral mentions, and _Forbidden Fountain_ only uses Kabumpo. Both use Baum characters centrally: Dorothy and the Cowardly Lion in MGR; Ozma in FF. As others have told you, the Little Wizard Stories were written for a younger audience than Baum's other Oz books (which is one reason why they aren't in the FF). They're certainly slight, though I rather enjoy "Little Dorothy and Toto," "The Cowardly Lion and the Hungry Tiger," and "Tik-Tok and the Nome King." I don't care much for the other three. Dave: Egg Beaters includes egg whites, I believe. I expect that either Ruggedo's cakes were the eggless kind or as some have speculated, cooking takes the curse off eggs for Nomes. Though in the latter case either the cook isn't a Nome or he/she wears gloves to handle the eggs - and given the terror the mere sight of an egg seems to inspire in Nomes, I think the latter is unlikely. 4/29: Jeremy: >Perhaps the Kalidah? Yes, it must be, because the giant spider came >during the journey to Glinda's palace. The Tin Woodman didn't ever kill a kalidah directly with his axe (he cut the tree bridge they were crossing and they fell to their deaths in an abyss), or for that matter the giant spider at all (the lion knocked its head off). Robin: At least I've seen most of the movies you rate in your Top Ten. (Exceptions were "Romeo and Juliet" and "Rebecca.") I agree that all I've seen are excellent movies, though I'd only put "Singin' in the Rain" and "Fantasia" in my own top ten, with "The Quiet Man" and "Meet Me in St. Louis" making my top 25 or so. ("Shakespeare in Love" has to age a bit before I'd rate it on an all-time basis; I loved the movie, but I've only seen it once and need more perspective.) I got the 1999 _Oziana_ a few days ago and found it excellent. The lead story, of course, is superb! :-) (For those of you who don't have it yet, that's my story...) Is there anyone represented in it who isn't a regular contributor to the Ozzy Digest? (Artists aside; maybe even those, though I haven't checked for their identities.) Gehan: Best Oz books? I rate the following as A's, with little distinction among them: Ozma, Patchwork Girl, Rinkitink, Lost Princess, Speedy, Wishing Horse, Merry-Go-Round. Worst (of the FF, I assume you mean; there are a lot of really terrible non-FF books out there): Wonder City and Scalawagons, about equally bad and substantially worse than any others. Baum's weakest is Road by a fair margin; Thompson's are Cowardly Lion and Ozoplaning. Hidden Valley and Shaggy Man are also not very good. Ruth: My friend Bruce Coville has complained bitterly about the cover of the paperback version of _Jennifer Murdley's Toad_, which shows Jennifer as a pretty little blonde - when a major point in the story is that Jennifer is homely as a mud pie. Lisa 22 from Long Island: I believe that the WWE came back to life in one of March Laumer's books - or maybe it was that her spirit animated Aunt Em? I haven't read the book, just a review of it. In any case, go for it - neither witch ever returned in an "official" book, so your version is as valid as anyone else's. Gehan again: Now, I think _Forbidden Fountain_ is a lot of fun - better than a significant number of the FF. I'd rate it somewhere between a C+ and a B-, on a par with, say, _Tik-Tok_ or _Kabumpo_ or _Jack Pumpkinhead_. What did you find so terrible about it? Ruth: Since you're the first to start discussing _Kabumpo_ I'll start my comments on it here. I haven't had a chance to reread it recently (though I'll try to get to that in the next two or three days), so my comments here are more general in nature. This is a book that always has seemed to me better in prospect than in actual reading. When I was a child it was my least favorite of all the Oz books I owned - which means that I even preferred _Ozoplaning_ and _Lucky Bucky_. As an adult I think it's better than either of those, but it's still somehow vaguely unsatisfying compared with many of the other Oz books. Part of it may be that some of the IEs are so very irrelevant (notably Rith Metic and the Illumi Nation) that they get in the way of the story. Also, even as a child I found Pompa's saying, "They remind me of something disagreeable. Why, they're _books_, Kabumpo..." as singularly inappropriate for the protagonist of a book. It's true that he goes on, "...great big arithmetic books," which may be intended to imply that only arithmetic books are disagreeable - but unfortunately the edition I have (and I think all R&L editions would be the same) has that continuation overleaf, so the association of books with something disagreeable is maintained for at least the time it takes to turn the page. And then the box of mixed magic keeps opening and closing at just the right times to work the plot - even more of a deus ex machina than we get in most Oz books. It seemed artificial to me when I was a kid and seems just as artificial now. Still, I do like Wag and Peg and Kabumpo, and Ruggedo seems more fun than he was in any of Baum's books. His history on eight rocks is quite amusing, and his tantrums with Wag are reminiscent of his personality in _Emerald City_ while being much more innocuous. It's a better book than Thompson's first, or than her next two, but it's not as good as most of Baum. Dave: I agree with your father's pronounciation of "Aslan." 5/1: Jeremy: >Ah--but perhaps we do: radio waves at a frequency we can't catch... It doesn't even have to be at a frequency we can't catch; if the modulation method isn't one that our receivers are designed to detect, it could be at a frequency we could receive but don't. Without the proper detection method it would just come in as noise. Gehan: Which Oz characters would I like to meet? Far too many to rate as a "few." Ozma, Glinda, Dorothy, Trot, Cap'n Bill, the Glass Cat, Eureka, Professor Woggle-bug, Reera, Azarine, Jellia, Scraps...those come to mind quite quickly, and I'd hate to leave any of them out. If restricted to four I guess I'd take Ozma, Dorothy, the Glass Cat, and Reera. Chris: Since Inga is able to converse with Dorothy without a translator, and as far as we know Dorothy only knows English/Ozish, the reference to the "Pingarese language" is either a reference to a writing method that's unique to Pingaree (as, say, Serbian and Croatian are essentially the same language but written with different alphabets), or the people of Pingaree have their own language that's used locally, but all speak fluent Ozish as well (like the shellbacks in _Pirates_). We had some discussion of this back when _Rinkitink_ was the BCF, as I recall. David G.: >Mirror: >Who writes the lead story in the Emerald City Mirror every issue? Has this >person written any Oz books? If not, they should. The stuff I'm reading here >is a lot better than some of the FF - very readable, entertaining, and well >put together. One thing I particularly like is that the author makes an >effort to reconcile past contradictions in the FF rather than blithely >creating new ones as so many of the Royal Historians did. Thank you. Yes, this person has written one published Oz book, yclept _The Glass Cat of Oz_, and a couple of others that haven't been accepted. This applies to the last two stories - the invasion of the Jabberwocks and the undersea adventure; before that they were written by the late Gilbert Sprague, who also wrote two or three books for ECP. Dave: The only ones of your favorite/least favorite choices that I take strong exception to is _Ojo_, which I consider one of the better books in the series (Ojo isn't written out of the series; he's just as potentially useful in Seebania as he was in the EC, where he wasn't used in any significant way anyhow though he's mentioned a few times), and _Ozoplaning_, which despite Jellia's major role (which I quite enjoy) is really a pretty bad book overall. I like _Yellow Knight_ more than you do and _Tin Woodman_ less, but those differences are within the bounds of taste. David Hulan ====================================================================== From: "Wayne A. Hayden" Subject: More ruby slipper sitings Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 09:23:12 -0000 I am writing to you because you seem to be as interested in the slippers as I have recently become. My fascination began when a group of drunken kids from my hometown of Richmond, Virginia stole the ruby slippers! Let me explain: The children's theater here, Theater IV of Virginia, was staging a performance of "The Wizard of Oz" and they constructed, or had constructed, a pair of styrofoam ruby slippers that were to serve as an advertisement for the production. They were 5 feet high, yes that's right, 5 feet! They were displayed proudly on the marquee of the theater for everyone to enjoy when one night a group of drunken fools decided to scale the marquee and steal the slippers. And steal them they did! The police were led right to the culprits by simply following the trail of glitter that had fallen off the slipers as they were being drug to their new home by the fools. 4 people were arrested and cahrged with larceny and destruction of public property. The slippers were torn to shreds by the time they were recovered and were feared to be irrepairable. Repairs for the slippers were donated by a local artist and successfully completed this past week. The new and improved 5 foot ruby slippers are once again proudly displayed atop the marquee of Theater IV for all to see. I think this is a great story because it really shows that the slippers have an effect on people. So far they are facing up to 4 yrs. jail time a piece because the advertisement value of the slippers was placed in aprice range that made their charges become felony charges. I will keep you abreast of the details. Smiles for the slippers, Yvonne ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 15:16:25 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-01-99 Chris: It may be that Pingarese is written with different characters, but is the same language, as Yiddish is a dialect of German written in Hebrew, and Serbian and Croatian are essentially the same language, but one uses the Roman alphabet and the other, the Cyrillic, since we know Ozish is an English dialect from _Pirates_. ========================================= Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! "Love is not a positive emotion that begins in us and ends in the positive response of someone else. Love is divine energy that comes from God and has no end." --Eric Butterworth ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 May 99 13:34:23 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things POLL: If I could meet a few Ozites, it would be: Ozma, Jellia, the Good Witch of the North, and the Adepts. RUGGEDO: The last he's seen in the Canon is _Handy Mandy_, where he's turned into a cactus, and it's the view of many that any new story about Rug should revert him to a cactus at the end so as not to inadvertantly contradict other non-Canonical books... This is the biggest bit of advice about my writing of _Locasta_ that I haven't taken. :) Actually, I have reason to believe that Ruggedo escaped, changed his identity, and is now teaching my Windows Programming class, where if you dare to mention Java he turns you into an ornament. -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave DaveH47@mindspring.com, http://www.mindspring.net/~daveh47/ Take the time to taste the honey on a summer breeze, Touch the love song every bird has learned to sing. Feel the sunlight as it warms you on the coolest day, And you'll feel a part of what we're gathering -- The senses of our world." -- The Bugaloos, "The Senses of Our World" ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 7, 1999 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] Submission address: OzDigest@mindspring.com Contact the moderator: DaveH47@mindspring.com ====================================================================== From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 22:25:47 EDT Subject: Oz Gehan: Dorothy goes through a lot of incarnations, while Alice stays pretty much the same. ALice seems to be more intelligent than Dorothy, but of course, Dorothy has much more stage time in all of the books put together, so she is more present in my mind. On ages: Well, Gehan, you seem to be drifting over to the Chris Dulabone camp, where everyone in Oz is a very young child. Your ages seem to be a little low. I don't get the sense at all that Trot, Dot and Bet(sy) are 7, 8 and 9. THat is, IMHO, far too young especially given the time out of Oz that Dorothy spent before she moved there permanently. Also, Trot had two adventures before moving to Oz, and she must have aged some as well. Your chronology would seem reasonable if you only include the FF. SInce I include other books, there is no way that I can squeeze all of those into so short a time frame. You may be over-estimating GLinda's power. It is a truism in literature (especially children's) that good always wins over evil, but Glinda may simply not have been powerful enough to steamroller over all four Wicked Witches, even with Locasta's help. It is possible that the best she could manage was a relatively uneasy truce, a balance of power, until Dorothy arrived. Also, it is my opinion that Glinda is an agent of Lurline sent by her to prepare Oz for Ozma's arrival. She may have sacrificed certain events in the short term for the overall goal of Ozma. Remember that the Great Book of Records does not always give full details of events that you and I would consider important. The intense magic of the creatures involved may have rendered their effort opaque to the Book. At best, it may have said the Nome King really "digs" his guests. :-) As for the events in _Scarecrow_ and _Glinda_, I can't give an answer. She does appear to have dropped the ball on this one. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 14:51:17 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-06-99 Hidden Valley of Oz: David (Hulan) and Sean said that it is a very weak. I disagree. I think its a well-written,nice story. Rachel Cosgrove is one of the best FF authors. She has also written her stories in simple language and her stories are not complicated in the least. The plot in -Hidden Valley- is somewhat simmilar to -Wizard-. Jam gets off his crate and meets three Gillikens with trimmed bells in their hats,just like Dorothy met the three munchkins in -Wizard-. He will do anything to get back home, the same way Dorothy acted in -Wizard-. Terp has conquered and forces the Gillikens to work hard the same way the WWW conquered the Winkies and held them in bondage. Overall,I think it was a very good book. (Not to mention,I read it on a very miserable,rainy day and so the book cheered me Ruggedo: It appears as if the effects of the Truth Pond and the Forbidden Fountain ware off pretty quickly through the evidence in -Shaggy Man-,-Tiktok-,-Sky Island-,-Kabumpo-e.t.c David Hulan and David Godwin: One of you said that Ruggedo appears in -Magical Mimics-. But he doesnt! I dont think that the Ozites speak in different languages. Jellia says so in -Land-. Maybe other tribes like the Loons,Horners,Hoppers,Tottenhots sepak in different languages but the Magic of Oz enables us to understand them. Oz Polls: Each of you seem to prefer to m,eet your own favorite Oz Charfacters. While waiting for the resulsts of my last poll,heres this weeks poll: Which version of -Wizard- was better,the MGm Movie or the Book? The book ofcourse. Untill next time! See ya! --Gehan ============================================================== "In all the world there's no place like home.......execpt Oz!" ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 09:52:31 -0400 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-06-99 Okay, first off, a request: Dave, if you are not going to forward any mail from the daveh47 address to the digest, then will you kindly put the "ozdigest" address in the reply-to:field, or at least not every now and again what the right address is in the header or trailer of the digest? I ad a computer crash necessitating a new computer a few months ago, and have not been able to post a letter since, until Ruth told me the new address. so I am going to forward here a couple of old messages I sent which never appeared: Jan 25: (sorry, can't remember your other address, as I will explain:) As to how Eureka got back to Oz: I dunno. I'm always reading documented stories of cats (and dogs) who travel thousands of miles across the country to be with their owners who have left them behind. Why couldn't Eureka have done that? How she did it may be doomed to remain a mystery. Re: names going in and out of fashion: I was in the process of compiling a list (as I have done before) of names and when people had them to verify the contention of whomever it was about whatever names (Joshua??) they were not being heard of (or at least common) before 1950. I do this by compiling first names from several of my company's clients, cross-indexed by date of birth (some 10,000 names or so). This was how, for example I saw a great spike in the name "Dorothy" in popularity starting in 1939. "Samantha" had a similar spike in the 1960s when "Bewitched" was popular. The last time I compiled the list (probably about 10 years ago), the "youngest" name on it was "Justin" which averaged about 4.5 years old. You can also use it to compare Richard vs. Dick vs. Dickie vs. Rich vs. Rick. vs. Ricky, etc. Unfortunately, before I could do this, my computer melted down, a casualty of the ice storm and subsequent blackout that Baltimore was hit with last week. I have a new computer, but of course, much data was lost. (I also had to do things like saw a 30 foot branch off my tree with a hand saw and cut it into 18" lengths). But I will eventually get back to this project.... --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky Feb 4: D. Hulan: > Incidentally, there's one > statement in _Handy Mandy_ that does appear to imply that Thompson thought > Oz was much bigger - she says Keretaria was a hundred leagues north of the > Sapphire City. Since a league, though not well-defined, is usually taken as > about 3 miles, I looked it up and you were right re: the definition of league. Does this mean that Jules Verne's (/Disney's) "20,000 Leagues Under The Sea" could be renamed "7 Earth Diameters Under the Sea"? Quelle dommage! --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky Feb 7th: > TO LISA: > Sorry, I forgot to answer your question yesterday! As Tyler said, > the Ozzy Digest is sort of the descendant of Nate Barlow's _Ozian Times_ > and Chris Heer's short-lived Oz mailing list. The "charter members" > of the Ozzy Digest are largely people who were on those lists: Me, Nate, > Tyler, Eric G., Peter Hanff, Robin O., David Hulan, Jim Vander Noot, > and a few others. (Don't forget me. I was one of the ones the Eric Gjovaag contacted upon the demise of Nate's list) --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky Today: Well, people already wrote back with the Pingarese to Serbocroatian analogy, goshdarn it! (BTW, what language do they speak/write in Slovenia? Macedonia (FYROM)?), so I will merely be reduced to pointing out the anti-example of Chinese, where the written language is common to many languages and dialects, even thought te spoken languages differ greatly. Gehan: I pronounce Roquat to rhyme with loquat, of course (RO-kwat)! David Godwin: Remember that Gehan lives in Sri Lanka, so the time difference is probably due to his sleeping! David Hulan: Well, *I* had always pronounced it KalEEdah until the discussion in the digest years ago made it clear that Baum probably meant to be evocative of kaleidoscope, so changed my pronounciation accordingly. YOU are the author of those wonderful serials in the Mirror??? WOW! I guess I GOTTA go out and buy GLASS CAT now! --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky (sorry for the length of this post, but ya know, 7 months of catching up to do!) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 17:14:57 +0100 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-06-99 Gehan >*.Who do you like more:Alice from -Alice in Wonderland- and -Through the >Looking Glass- or Dorothy? Dorothy, by a large margin. This may not be very fair to Alice, though; she appeared in only two books, whereas Dorothy was a central character in ten and a major character in five or six more. (I'm not counting Philip Jose Farmer's heretical use of both characters.) If I had only the first two "Dorothy" books (_Wiz_ and _Ozma_) I might well opt for Alice, but by the time you factor in Dorothy's roles in (particularly) _Emerald City_, _Lost Princess_, _Wishing Horse_, and _Merry-Go-Round_, she comes out well ahead. >*Who is the best out of the three:Dorothy,Betsy or Trot? I prefer Trot. If you count only Oz books, Dorothy is again better developed because of her far greater number of appearances. If you add in _Sea Fairies_ and _Sky Island_, then it's very close and I might go either way on a given day. Trot is a more central character in the two non-Oz books and _Scarecrow_ than Dorothy is in any books but _Wizard_, _Ozma_, and _Wishing Horse_ You of course have the privilege of believing the children in Oz are any age you choose, and Chris D would probably applaud your opinion on this, since he thinks Ozma is only 8. But to me, Dorothy doesn't act like a 7-year-old in _Ozma_ or _DotWiz_, or an 8-year-old in _Road_ or _Emerald City_ or later. I read to 4th graders, who are typically about 9, and none of them are as mature as Dorothy is in any of the books except _Wizard_. Also, Baum is very explicit that Ozma appears to be 14 or 15; while he says Dorothy is "much younger," it's doubtful that he means as much younger as 8. Do you know any 14-year-olds who have kids in the the 7-9 range as best friends? Even 10-12 is pushing it some, but at least it's thinkable. Regarding Jack's heads, you're assuming that none of his heads lasted as much as a year. While, as it happens, I agree that they probably didn't, so the first six books are compressed in time compared to the time between publications, you can't take it as proof. My chronology, as I've said before, is: Wizard: 1899 (probably June) - Dorothy is 8 Land: 1900 - Dorothy is 9; Jack's first head is made in June (we have to assume pumpkins ripen year-round in Oz) Ozma: September 1901 - Dorothy is 10; Jack's second head was made in January and his third next month DotWiz: June 1902 - Dorothy is 10 or 11; Jack's fourth head was made in April Road: August 1902 - Dorothy is 11 EC: November 1902 - Dorothy is 11; Jack is still on his fourth head Except that we know _Road_ happens in August, the months are guesswork, but there are indications: June is the worst month for tornadoes; the worst storms at sea are usually around the equinoxes, and since after Dorothy was in Oz "several happy weeks" she saw the hands in the harvest fields in Kansas, the autumnal equinox is indicated; Eureka is still a "kitten" when she comes to Oz permanently, most likely at the time of _Road_, so _DotWiz_ can't happen much before _Road_; the bank would most likely foreclose on Uncle Henry right after the harvest, when it could see there was no prospect of getting paid for at least another year. I have a great deal of difficulty in believing that Dorothy is as young as 5 in _Wizard_. We know that she can read quite well because she can understand the instructions in the Golden Cap. While it's quite possible for a 5-year-old to read that well - I read the whole book, including those instructions, at that age - it seems highly unlikely that Dorothy's home environment was one that would have emphasized reading to that extent. I think it's almost certain that she'd had a year or two of school by the time she went to Oz. There isn't much evidence that Glinda feels it her duty to solve all the ills of Oz (much less anywhere else). She seems to step in only when all else fails, or when some unknown disaster seems to have happened to Ozma. The rest of the time she seems to step in only on whim, and then mostly via agents (like the Scarecrow in his eponymous book) rather than personally. She didn't, incidentally "send Ozma and Dorothy to stop" the Flathead-Skeezer war; in fact, she tried to talk Ozma into ignoring it. Ozma, however, is a very strong-willed young lady. >BTW:How do you guys pronounce Roquat? I prononounce it as Rookart. I pronounce it ROH-kwaht. (I'm not quite sure how your system of phonetic transcription works, so I don't know how you'd pronounce something you spell "Rookart." To me that would be "rook," as in the bird or chess piece, rhyming with "book," followed by "art," like the complement of science, and I wouldn't pronounce "Roquat" anything close to that.) Sean: I agree with all your assessments except your favorites, which to me include two B-grade Baums and a C- Thompson. I still think the first two Neills are even worse than _Hidden Valley_ and _Shaggy Man_, but you're right that they're livelier and have more interesting ideas. If Neill could have written as well as he thought up ideas his books could have been among the best. Tyler: >That, my friend, is the whole point, at least from a member of the radical >right :-) I believe that when the lead "gummint" figure is lazy and >do-nothing, the people prosper. :-) So your list of the greatest American presidents includes the two Harrisons, Tyler, Taylor, Fillmore, Pierce, Buchanan, Hayes, Harding, and Coolidge? Most people don't remember the Panic of 1893 as a time when the people prospered much, but whatever turns you on... >I'd also like to meet Polychrome, but (ahem) in a rather different situation. >:-) Polychrome isn't a resident of Oz, either; meeting her would be a coincidence, not something that could easily be arranged. Dave: >Actually, I have reason to believe that Ruggedo escaped, changed his >identity, and is now teaching my Windows Programming class, where if you >dare to mention Java he turns you into an ornament. No, he was transformed into this nerdy-looking guy who founded a software company in Redmond... David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 18:03:59 -0500 Subject: Oz From: "David Frank Godwin" X-Priority: 3 Gehan wrote: >BTW:How do you guys pronounce Roquat? I prononounce it as Rookart. I've always pronounced it "Roe-kwaht," but now that I think about it, Baum may have intended "Rock-what," because of the pun with "rock," a natural enough name for a Nome. In answer to the poll this week, I prefer Dorothy to Alice anytime. Alice seems almost entirely passive, wandering around and letting things happen to her. She is merely a point of view, a confused little kid concerned more with proper rules of behavior than with the pragmatics of the situation at hand, and is not so much a real character. IMHO, Dorothy's character is much more developed than Alice's. As for the Oz girls, again it's Dorothy by a narrow margin. Trot's got a lot going for her, too, though, especially if you read _Sky Island_. And, BTW, I think you've got all these girls way too young. I'll go with the 10-11-12 ages that seemed to reach general agreement previously. Most of the time, they act pretty much like adults and are not overly helpless and dependent the way most younger kids seem to be. But again, I'm judging by 1990s America, which may not apply. The Size of Oz: Dave's FAQ has for some time now given the size of Oz at about 70 x 90 miles. ISTR that he was going to revise that as a result of some later discussion, but he never seems to have gotten around to it. What confuses me is that I've been looking back through the archives and have found that, back in 1996, Dave was advocating the idea that Oz is about the size of Colorado (104,091 square miles). I just wonder why the change, and why so radical. Someone else said at some point that it ought to be about twice the 70 x 90 size, and I tended to agree with that, but now I find myself willing to compromise on David Hulan's 90 x 120, about the size of Belgium. Sex in Oz: I assume that we are all mature adults, or reasonable facsimiles thereof, so it seems that it might be worthwhile to consider seriously the weighty question of whether sex as we know it exists in Oz at all. Robert Heinlein - oddly enough, given his adolescent obsessions about sex even in his 80s - asserted in _The Number of the Beast_ that there is not. I tend to agree with that, though perhaps not for the same reasons. He extended it to the point where, he said, babies are not even born in Oz. Of course we all know from the FF that this is not so. OTOH, Philip Jose Farmer seemed to want to turn Oz into a sexual playground (in _Barnstormer_). From the Oz-as-Literature POV, Oz was created for children and continues to this day to be focused on that audience. In Baum's day, sex education was awfully primitive, I think. This was the tail end of the Victorian era, after all, which in some respects lasted until the 1950s in this country. Most children were told that babies were brought to married couples by the stork. None of this "mommy's tummy" nonsense - it was the stork, I tell you. So my hypothesis is that babies are in fact born in Oz - brought by the stork from the Valley of Babies in Merryland just on the other side of the desert - but that sex as such just does not exist. Could this be because Oz is truly a children's world where sex is unknown? I think I would almost prefer it that way, because there's always a downside to things. If sex exists in Oz, then what about rape? Child molesters? (Oz would be a gold mine for one of these freaks.) Do we have seedy looking Nomes peddling porn photos in the darker corners of the Emerald City? And what about the book with the "funny pictures" in it that Dorothy looked at in WWiz? Even without aberrations, shouldn't women in a place like Oz be spared the consequences of original sin (according to Genesis); viz., menstruation and childbirth? Looks very much to me as if, although romance may be in, sex in Oz is out. Or is it? One might suppose that sex exists in Oz without the downside. There, you might say, it is always a pure and ideal expression of love in which "the heartaches and nightmares are left out." If that is so, however, why do so many people seem to avoid it? There are a lot of children in Oz who are more than 100 years old but have chosen to stop aging at a point that might suggest that they prefer to avoid the traumas of puberty and sexual relationships. Most everyone in every other part of the world seems to think it is worth it, but not in Oz. That hardly points to any idealized state of affairs with regard to sex. What's the opinion on this? Do lovers in Oz hold hands and kiss and that's it? Or is Oz suitable for mature adults only? - David G. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 May 99 17:55:25 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things DIGEST ADDRESS: Michael Turniansky wrote: >Okay, first off, a request: Dave, if you are not going to forward any mail >from the daveh47 address to the digest... I do whenever I see a message in my regular mailbox that's clearly for the Digest, but sometimes I slip... > ... then will you kindly put the "ozdigest" address in the reply-to:field... Unfortunately, Eudora Light offers no way to do this for the Digest only. >... or at least not every now and again what the right >address is in the header or trailer of the digest? *That* I can do... "...AND KANSAS SHE SAYS IS THE NAME OF THE STAR.": For my unbirthday the other day my dad gave me a tape of the _Wizard of Oz_ soundtrack (the short version with the yellowish cover). Nice to listen to all the songs in the car, and to her the outtakes "The Jitterbug" and the Winkie/Emerald City reprise of "Ding-Dong the Witch is Dead". My only disappointment was the omission of my favorite part of the score, the music when Dorothy first emerges into Oz before Glinda arrives. "NO SEX PLEASE, WE'RE OZITES": David Godwin wrote: >What's the opinion on this? Do lovers in Oz hold hands and kiss and that's >it? Or is Oz suitable for mature adults only? Well, of course there are some Oz scholars who would begrudge Ozites even a kiss or held hands. One can make a googolplex arguments against sex in Oz: "Oz is for *kids*", "Oz is an obvious product of Victorian puritanism", etc., etc. On the other hand, there are many who might think sex with true love is something good not evil and therefore argue that Oz is meant to be ideal utopia, and that any place that's sexually repressed cannot be utopian. Or there might be some *real* heretics who would point out that Oz is a work of fantasy literature and is open to individual interpretation, and that the sweet, innocent Oz *can* be reconciled with a more sexy (but *not* pornographic!) side to the American Fairyland. So where do *I* stand...? Well, Jellia is at this moment whispering in my ear that if I state a definite, frank opinion she refuses to be held responsible for any death threats I may receive, so I'd better just refer everyone to _Red Dwarf in Oz_ on my web page in which I state my view very succinctly. And BTW, just a fair warning: If this debate turns vicious, I will be very quick in terminating it. -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave DaveH47@mindspring.com, http://www.mindspring.net/~daveh47/ Take the time to taste the honey on a summer breeze, Touch the love song every bird has learned to sing. Feel the sunlight as it warms you on the coolest day, And you'll feel a part of what we're gathering -- The senses of our world." -- The Bugaloos, "The Senses of Our World" ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 8 - 11, 1999 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] WARNING: Some messages in today's Digest contain material that may be deemed unsuitable for pre-teen audiences. Reader discretion is advised. ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Ozzy Matters Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 20:08:30 PDT Gehan: >Actually,Scraps refused to be Queen in _Gnome King_ and not _Grampa_. >She isn't even mentioned there.... Actually, Dorothy mentions Scraps to Percy Vere. I don't think the Patchwork Girl actually appears on stage in _Grampa_, though. >Even though Trot says that she's 10 in -Giant Horse- I think she's >really >about 7. Maybe she preffered to stay 10 once she came to Oz but I >think >that >she's 7. In -Through the Looking Glass- Alice tells Humpty Dumpty >that >she's >7 years and six months and she has lots of scense for a year old. I don't really think it's fair to base theories such as these on how a character in an unrelated series acts. I have always that Alice was often more sensible (or more knowledgeable, at least) than your average seven-year-old. This might just mean that Baum can write a more convincing child than Carroll can. >While waiting for my:"If You could meet an Oz Character" Poll >Results,heres this weeks poll: >*.Who do you like more:Alice from -Alice in Wonderland- and -Through >the >Looking Glass- or Dorothy? I think I prefer Dorothy. As much as I like the Alice books, I'm not sure that Alice is all that strong a character in her own right. I also think I'd rather meet Dorothy than Alice, since Dorothy has a personality that is both stronger and more pleasant than Alice's. David Godwin: >I had always assumed (in the various books) that the effects of the >Waters of Oblivion wore off after a few years. That was the explanation that Thompson gave in _Kabumpo_. Baum never gave any indication that the effects were only temporary; I think that his explanation of Roquat/Ruggedo re-learning his wickedness involved the fact that he returned to the Nome Kingdom, not that the water wore off. David Hulan: >I couldn't remember whether that desert crossing [in _Purple >Prince_] >ended up in the Winkie >Country or the Gillikin; I know they got to the latter rather >quickly. True, but they had to travel through Double Up, which was located in the Winkie Country. >I've never heard "kalEEdah"; the variants I've heard have been >KALidah and >kaliDAH. (I say kalEYEdah myself, because if it was supposed to be >KALidah >I think Baum would have spelled it "kallidah," and "kaliDAH" sounds >to me >as if the plural ought to be "kalidot." :-)) In _Who's Who_, Snow suggests that "kalidah" may have been derived from "kaleidoscope," giving added weight to the kalEYEdah pronunciation (whcih is the one that I used even before reading _Who's Who_). Some thoughts on _Kabumpo_: I haven't actually gotten around to re-reading the book yet, but I can remember it pretty well, and one thing that always struck me about it was Ruggedo's height. I don't think Baum ever addressed this issue, but it was never hinted that the Nome was all that much shorter than the average human character. In _Kabumpo_, however, Ruggedo is only one foot tall (until he uses the Expanding Extract, of course). I'm assuming that Thompson was inspired by the gnomes of folklore, who often were no taller than that. Did Ruggedo shrink due to exposure to sunlight? Did Ozma shrink Ruggedo so that he couldn't cause as much trouble? Is this just a goof on the part of the Royal Historian? Notice that, when Ruggedo appears in _Gnome King_, Peter observes that the Nome is "no bigger than me" (not "several feet shorter than me"), and _Pirates_ gives his height as four feet, which seems to make sense; he's tall enough that people can communicate with him without bending down all that much, but short enough to be noticed as short. Speaking of Ruggedo, I think his cave is fairly sparsely furnished in _Kabumpo_, and the furniture that is there is small enough to comfortably accomodate the foot-high Nome and his rabbit steward. When Matiah visits the cavern in _Wishing Horse_, however, it contains a full-sized table and chairs (and possibly some other furniture; I can't quite remember). Is it possible that someone used the cave in between _Kabumpo_ and _Wishing Horse_? I suppose it could have even been Ruggedo himself, in the period between _Gnome King_ and _Pirates_. Nathan _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ====================================================================== From: Ozmama@aol.com Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 23:36:53 EDT Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-06-99 Ruth Berman: <> That always bothered me as a kid. I settled it in my own mind by telling myself that it was a plan RPT meant to use originally as the solution to the problem, but that she changed her mind later and simply forgot to delete the line from her old version. That's fairly easy to do, and fairly difficult for a casual editor to catch. David Hulan: <> The word is punnier as "kalEYEdah," isn't it. Clumsy, klutzy kalidahs colliding.... <> Um, David, if you've gotten the '99 _Oziana_, I wish you'd tell me all about it. I'm still working on that issue. :) Yes, it's loaded with _Ozzy Digesters_. Talented group of people here! I've seen "Shakespeare in Love" only twice. I can't wait to see it again. I hardly ever pay to see a movie twice. I've never before been eager to get my hands on a video, but the moment that one comes out, I'll be right there to shell out my money for it. Tom Stoppard is marvelous. The cleverest Shakespeare thing I've ever seen was his "Fifteen Minute Hamlet." The man is a brilliant writer, and he knows and respects Shakespeare's work. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 12:16:28 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-07-99 Oz Polls: Well,I still prefer Alice to Dorothy. Coming to the poll relusts,I was the only one who prefered Alice and so Dorothy wins. Most of you also choose Dorothy out of Trot and Betsy. So she wins it all! This weeks poll: Which is better,the MGM Movie or RTOZ? IMHO:I think both are great! David Hulan: > But to me, Dorothy doesn't act like a >7-year-old in _Ozma_ or _DotWiz_, or an 8-year-old in _Road_ or _Emerald >City_ or later. I read to 4th graders, who are typically about 9, and none >of them are as mature as Dorothy is in any of the books except _Wizard_. >Also, Baum is very explicit that Ozma appears to be 14 or 15; while he says >Dorothy is "much younger," it's doubtful that he means as much younger as >8. Do you know any 14-year-olds who have kids in the the 7-9 range as best >friends? Even 10-12 is pushing it some, but at least it's thinkable. Well,in that case,Alice says that she's seven and a half in -Through the Looking Glass-. This means that she should have been atleast 7 or younger in -Alice in Wonderland-. She acted extremely well for a seven year old and so I dont see why Dorothy couldnt either. As for Dorothy's good English and her reading ability,I dont see why a seven year old cant read? After all,Aunt Em and Uncle Henry may have tought her and she also says that she HAS gone to school in -Ozma- and -DotWiz-. I dont beleive that Ozma is 8. I think she's about 16 even though Baum says that she's 14. >Wizard: 1899 (probably June) - Dorothy is 8 That cant be so since Baum began his Dorothy-Oz Tales in 1898. I dont agree that Dorothy was 5 during -Wizard- either. Someone said that Coo-ee-oh never intended to conquer Oz. Well,she tells Ozma: "I have one hundred and one citizens on my island and the two of you shall extend it to one hundred and three. And by ruling you Ozma, I shall also rule the thousands you say you rule!" Its pretty much like being Queen of all Oz... Tyler: Well,I usually take info. from the FF books and the Quasi-FF only and so my Ozzy Timeline may really fit in. I accept a few more Oz books outside the FF and the Quasi FF ,but those books have adventures which occured after Dorothy came to Oz. Trot: Well,since Trot had 2 adventures before -Scarecrow-,and we assume that she was 7 at the time of -Scarecrow-,she may have been about 6+ during her first adventure and that seems to fit in quite well..... Untill next time! --Gehan ============================================================== "In all the world there's no place like home.......execpt Oz!" ====================================================================== From: "Bob Collinge" Subject: Sex in Oz Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 08:27:13 -0400 David Godwin wrote: >I assume that we are all mature adults, or reasonable facsimiles thereof, so it seems that it might be worthwhile to consider seriously the weighty question of whether sex as we know it exists in Oz at all.< Personally, I don't think that we can assume that. I beleive that there are some teenagers on the digest, and other youngsters who may browse with their parents. FWIW, I have not read all of the FF, so do not know of different occasions when babies are mentioned. I would like to believe that a perfect place like Oz would indeed be a place where sex is accepted. Weekly Poll: I grew up on the movie, and love it, and did not read Baum's first book until about 7 years ago. I now think that the book is told much better. Bob C. ====================================================================== From: "Doug Torrance" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-07-99 Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 09:37:40 PDT Hi. To start off with, this is the first time I've posted to the Ozzy Digest, but I've been a huge Oz fan ever since I discovered my dad's old Oz books in the corner of my room when I was in third grade. Now I'm a senior in high school, and I still enjoy reading them. Some people have been talking about whether or not the effects of the Truth Pond wear off over time or not. There was a really interesting Eric Shanower story in the 1990 Oziana called "The Final Fate of the Frogman" in which it states that the effects do not, in fact, wear off. Shaggy Man and Button-Bright get away with it thanks to Shaggy's experience dealing with others as well as the Love Magnet, and Button-Bright simply because he's a child and his unwelcome truths are considered cute. The Frogman, however, left EC and, now back on all fours like a normal frog, guards the Truth Pond to warn potential bathers. My theory on the pre-Ozma history of Oz: In _Dorothy and the Wizard_, Ozma talks about how all the previous rulers of Oz were named Oz or Ozma. Well, as far as actual rulers we know about, we have Pastoria and, non-canonically, Ozroar; no Ozzes or Ozmas. It can be assumed that all Ozian rulers named their firstborn sons Oz and their firstborn daughters Ozma. I think that Pastoria was the younger brother of a Prince Oz, perhaps also enchanted by Mombi, died (depending on when Oz became a fairyland), or just lost interest in ruling. When the Wizard came to Oz, the people saw the "O. Z." on his balloon, and they assumed he was Pastoria's older brother, Oz. This same explanation could be used to explain Ozroar's name. One more thing: no one seems to like Neill's books from what I've read. Despite continuity errors (which can easily be corrected using some imagination), I thought they were great. Especially, they were lots of fun. So many hilarious things are happening all the time. _Wonder City_ is one of my favorite books of the series. That's just my two cents. Doug Torrance _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 11:57:31 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-06-99 DAVID HULAN: >I got the 1999 _Oziana_ a few days ago and found it excellent. The lead >story, of course, is superb! :-) (For those of you who don't have it yet, >that's my story...) Is there anyone represented in it who isn't a regular >contributor to the Ozzy Digest? (Artists aside; maybe even those, though I >haven't checked for their identities.) (You mean 1998, of course....) All the writers are certainly Digest contributors. As for the artists, well, IIRC Neill hasn't posted anything here in a while. The cover artist and the artist who created the picture on page 30 are unknown to me. I agree that it was an impressive issue. SEX IN OZ: Well, this came out of left field. But, since it was brought up, hey, I'll play along. Here are some thoughts to add to the discussion's perspective.* --Of COURSE Nomes are child molesters. Especially the gay ones. (See The Psychozlogy Review, Vol. 69, Num. 2.) --Who's kinkier: Dorothy, Betsy, or Trot? --Who thinks Ozma freebases to heighten sexual ecstasy? (Remember, she's always wearing those poppies. It's not a big stretch.) --Has anyone ever seen nude pictures of Polychrome on the Internet? If so, please forward them to me. In the meantime, I'll check with those porn-peddling Nomes. --The Wizard has to be Glinda's paramour. A man and woman just can't spend all that time alone studying together without, well, you know... --The Yellow Knight: boxers or briefs? * The residents of the Quadling kingdom of Sarcasmia have contributed to this list. Atticus * * * "She reads at such a pace," she complained, "and when I asked her *where* she had learnt to read so quickly she replied, 'On the screens at Cinemas.'" Visit my webpage at http://members.aol.com/atty993 ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 22:26:16 -0400 From: Lisa M Mastroberte To: The Digest Subject: Re: THE OZZY DIGEST, OF MAY 7, l999 Heighty-Ho Digesters! >BTW:How do you guys pronounce Roquat? I pronounce it as Rookart. I pronounce it Ro-KAT. Sex in Oz: <> My humble opinion on it is while it may be okay for adults to have it, it is *not* mentioned in any of the Oz books for obvious reasons. I mean, most children in the Victorian era did not know about sex, and parents/other adults were in no hurry to mention it. It may happen "just for fun." Crucify me. David: <8. Do you know any 14-year-olds who have kids in the the 7-9 range as best friends? Even 10-12 is pushing it some, but at least it's thinkable.>> MOPPET is that Ozma is around 14, while Dorothy herself is around 11. Around the time of WWiz, she was about 8. And it's not unusual for her to be rather mature, especially if she was on a farm, where she had to help out, et cetera. So Betsy is 12, and Trot is 10. Sound good enough? -%*-%*-%*-%*-%*-%*-%*-%*-%*-%*-%*-%*-%*-%*- And out of the three girls, I prefer Betsy. Somebody once said that _nobody_ can prefer Betsy since she's only a cheap copy of Dorothy, while I entirely disagree. She has a rather strong character, seemingly more mature than Dorothy and esp. Trot. When you read the books, you find that she uses no childish lisps and seems less afraid. Her life history will appear in my fanfic in progress, _The Silver Crown of Oz_, narrated by Ms. Bobbin herself. I'm sick of typing right now. Goodnight. -Lisa ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 22:40:26 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: KABUMPO and other weighty things Mike Turniansky wrote: <> Not until I read an ANNOTATED 20,000 LEAGUES did I fathom that the title measurement referred to the total distance the NAUTILUS traveled under the sea, not its distance below sea level. Gehan Cooray wrote: <> It's not really a Cockney accent, but an all-purpose American rural dialect. Jes' as Baum firs' uses baby-talk for Dor'thy in OZMA, so Aunt Em and Uncle Henry arrive by their accents late in the series. It's part of making them slightly more rounded characters, as well as more comic ones. Incidentally, I wonder if the way you've been rendering pronunciation of names reflects how you speak, especially the understated R of British English. We Americans might read your renderings of Langwidere and Roquat aloud quite differently from how you do. Mike Turniansky wrote: <> A Nonestic Ocean and a Deadly Desert? Yes, I know I might be underestimating the power of a determined cat. David Hulan wrote of using the Wizard's wishing pill to wish oneself a wizard: <> I think of the Wizard's pills as less powerful than the older magic of the Magic Belt, Magic Picture, Great Book of Records, emerald necklaces, and so on. Even in the last case, they were able to divert some of Chalk's spell over Oz, but not to ward it off or reverse it. David Godwin wrote: <> It seems clear that Thompson's boys have private parts. Speedy wraps a sheet around his waist when he jumps out of bed after sleeping nude in SPEEDY, and David checks himself in a mirror before dressing to see if anything's shrunk in ENCHANTED ISLAND. Furthermore, Thompson's books are most clear that heroes (not merely adjunct young people like Gloria and Pon) can fall in love, marry, and have children. Therefore, I've come to the conclusion that there's more evidence for sex in Thompson's Oz than in Baum's. She started writing books in the Jazz Age, after all; he started in the Victorian Age. Some argue that if there were sex in Oz, the country should be a lot more populated than it is. This assumes that Ozian psychology and sociobiology is just like our own, which I don't think is definite. Sometimes we have sex to relieve tension, grab a little pleasure, prove something to ourselves--would such actions be so common in a more contented, less driven society? We have procreative sex to produce children because they're our species' only hope for maintaining itself, and individually our surest taste of immortality. But Ozians are immortal, so would they value children for those reasons? Sean Duffley wrote: <> I agree. Even OZMA's plot is resolved in a slightly cheating manner, with Roquat breaking supervillain rule #4: Never explain your entire scheme out loud to someone who already knows it. But MAGIC has three plots, all kept up in the air at once and all resolved fairly and adeptly. Those characters *deserve* a party at the end! Sean Duffley wrote: <> But on this I disagree. As I grew up with the series, I too came back to WIZARD late and seldom, and thought it slightly overrated. But on rereading it as an adult, I began to appreciate it on a more mythic level. Unlike Baum's other Oz books, we know this one started as an oral tale, and it retains some of that antique rhythm and power, as well as showing some of the faults of the genre when transfixed in prose. WIZARD's writing is indeed at a more basic level, with lots of repetitions or formulas, as when all three of Dorothy's companions speak in turn. The characters of the Scarecrow and Tin Woodman (and Lion, after drinking his courage) aren't as complex as they grow to be. All secondary characters introduced between Boq and Mr. Joker are types with labels instead of names--the "pretty girl," the "farmer," the "Wicked Witch," the "tall soldier." The plot is a linear quest, without the twists of LAND and MAGIC and other books. But when I make those criticisms, I feel like I'm condemning the ODYSSEY for saying "wine-dark sea" too often and building too much tension before Odysseus slays the suitors. WIZARD is as much myth as novel, and therefore doesn't measure up on a yardstick for novels anymore than PATCHWORK GIRL measures up on a yardstick for myths. Gehan Cooray wrote: <> It's *very* similar to WIZARD. Indeed, by the end of HIDDEN VALLEY, when Cosgrove has Jam and his animal buddies traveling with Dorothy and the Scarecrow *and* the Tin Woodman **and** the Cowardly Lion ***and*** the Hungry Tiger, it seems clear that she's trying hard to replicate what every child would want in an Oz book. "Wouldn't I love to travel to the Emerald City with all my favorites?" But if an author gives us exactly what we want, there's not much originality or much surprise. Dave Hardenbrook wrote as a fault in KABUMPO: <> Why do we need one? We already know he regained his memory after EMERALD CITY, and the mechanism there is not much clearer. We also know that a repeated dose of drugs can have diminishing effects on someone. David Hulan wrote: <> I agree with your criticism of Rith Metic, and especially Pompa's unfortunate remark about books (though it may not be uncharacteristic--he doesn't seem to be the bookworm Inga was). But I think Illumi Nation plays a crucial role in the plot of KABUMPO because that's where Pompa's hair is singed off. Thompson alludes to this accident many times in the following pages, though Neill undercuts the effect by illustrating it only once [169]. Pompadore's sudden whiffle cut is significant in two ways: 1) The physical deprivation and loss both he and Kabumpo go through make their quest into a heroic journey, not simply a diplomatic mission. Pompa is used to luxury, but the "once fastidious Prince of Pumperdink" [161] must endure suffering much like Peg Amy in her torn frock. Compare also the feast for Pompa at the start [23] to how famished and grateful he feels to discover the Soup Sea [163]. 2) In losing his "once luxuriant pompadour," Pompa Dore symbolically loses his identity. "No one will want to marry me now," he sighs [152-3]. Like a mythic hero, Pompa must come back from nothing, rebuild himself stronger than before. Yvonne (Hayden?) wrote: <> Delightful. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 22:26:39 EDT Subject: Oz David Godwin: ISTR that the change in Dave's perception of the size of Oz had to do with an analysis of Dorothy's journey in _Wizard_ combined with estimates of how far a young girl of 5 or 6 could walk in one day. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 08:49:07 +0100 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-07-99 >Remember that the Great Book of Records does not always give full details of >events that you and I would consider important. The intense magic of the >creatures involved may have rendered their effort opaque to the Book. At >best, it may have said the Nome King really "digs" his guests. :-) That particular locution is improbable, since "dig" in its current slang sense only dates to the Forties, and even then it was only popular in jazz circles. Mad Comics popularized it among the general public in the early Fifties. (And yeah, I know you were only kidding...) Gehan: It's good to know somebody likes _Hidden Valley_, since from what I've heard Rachel Cosgrove Payes was a very nice lady. But I don't like it. Granted, I didn't read it till I was thirtysomething, but I don't think that was the problem; I didn't read _Merry-Go-Round_ until I was thirtysomething, either, and didn't read _Handy Mandy_ tilll I was past 40, and I like both of those very much. (Others I didn't read till I was past thirty are _Captain Salt_, which I think is OK but isn't a favorite, and the first two Neills, both of which I think are awful.) >David Hulan and David Godwin: >One of you said that Ruggedo appears in -Magical Mimics-. But he doesnt! I didn't say anything on the subject one way or the other. Someone - who may have been David G. - said that Ruggedo was _mentioned_ in _Magical Mimics_; I don't recall anyone saying he actually appeared in that book, and of course he doesn't. >I dont think that the Ozites speak in different languages. Jellia says so in >-Land-. I don't think anyone suggested that more than one language is spoken within Oz; the question was whether different languages might be spoken in the other countries of Nonestica. (There does seem to have been an Old Ozish language that may survive in some backwaters, but we know from _Yellow Knight_ that some form of English has been spoken in Oz for at least 700 years.) >Each of you seem to prefer to m,eet your own favorite Oz Charfacters. Well of course! Why would we want to meet a character we found dull and uninteresting? Mike: Condolences on the loss of your computer. I highly recommend an Uninterruptible Power Supply, which keeps your computer working and gives you time for an orderly shutdown in case of a sudden power failure. Your name project sounds interesting; if you re-create it I'd be interested in your results. >Does this >mean that Jules Verne's (/Disney's) "20,000 Leagues Under The Sea" could be >renamed "7 Earth Diameters Under the Sea"? Quelle dommage! If you'd read the book you'd know that "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea" doesn't refer to a depth, but to the length of the voyage the narrator and his companions took in the _Nautilus_. >(BTW, what language do they speak/write in Slovenia? Macedonia >(FYROM)?) I believe that Slovenian is a language in its own right. I'm not sure whether there's a Slavic language called "Macedonian" or whether Macedonia is a polyglot state including speakers of Albanian, Serbo-Croatian, and Bulgarian. Maybe someone else knows. David G.: Interesting discussion on sex in Oz. I think it's an exaggeration to say that Farmer "seemed to want to turn Oz into a sexual playground" in _Barnstormer_, but he does acknowledge that sex exists in Oz and has his protagonist engage in some of it. My personal view is that sex does exist in Oz, but I rather agree with you that it probably doesn't result in conception - that babies, when they are desired (and we only know of one instance in the FF), are brought over from Merryland by storks. But it's understandable that there's no evidence for or against the existence of sexual activity in Oz in the FF. I don't think the fact that a lot of children in Oz have chosen to stop aging before puberty tells us much about whether those who have aged beyond that point have an interest in sex. I know when I was 10-12 years old most kids my age regarded the idea of romance in general, including sex to the extent we knew anything about it, as rather repugnant. And in Oz, where the other restrictions on children that make them want to get older don't seem to exist (they seem to be able to go off traveling independently at whim, for instance), it seems likely to me that a child who saw that people who got older started getting into all that "mushy" stuff would regard that as a significant reason to stop aging. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 15:30:16 -0400 From: Michael Turniansky X-Accept-Language: en Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-07-99 > >From the Oz-as-Literature POV, Oz was created for children and continues to > this day to be focused on that audience. In Baum's day, sex education was > awfully primitive, I think. This was the tail end of the Victorian era, > after all, which in some respects lasted until the 1950s in this country. > Most children were told that babies were brought to married couples by the > stork. None of this "mommy's tummy" nonsense - it was the stork, I tell you. A non-Ozzy digression: the other day I was watching Dumbo with my 4.5 year old. At the beginning scene with the delivery of the circus babies, I remarked to my son, "you know of course that the stork doesn't bring babies, right?" (he has a younger brother) "Right." "So where do they come from?" "From the Mommy's tummy, or the baby store" (the last *we* surely never taught him). But this got me to wondering: even if one _accepts_ the stork story, where do the STORKS get them? (the baby store? which in turn gets them from the baby warehouse, whither they are delivered by the baby wholesaler who gets them from.....? God?) Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 19:52:20 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Ozzy Things David Hulan: You said that my wish about being the most powerful wizard in Oz wont work,because my magic cant be stronger than the person who invented the wishing pills. Well,a wish a wish,no matter what! Ozzy Witches: It would be nice to see a beautiful,yet wicked witch in Oz. All the Ozzy Witches are old ugly hags. The Wicked witch of the South could have easily been a beautiful witch,but Rachel Payes made her another old hag. We cant point out Queen Coo-ee-oh because she's not exactly beautiful....Are there any non FF books with wicked,beautiful witches? Illustrations: Some of the John R.Neill character drawings are not so nice. *.Dorothy: She could have been more chubbier with thicker hair. Shanower's Dorothy is iedial! *.Ozma: I hate her hair in Neill's drawings. Her face isnt so nice either. Dick Martin and Eric Shanower drew Ozma exeptionally well. *.Jinjur: She looks like the baker's-wife or something.I've always imagined her with longer hair and not so chubby. Her face could be more pretty too. *.Coo-ee-oh: She looks like a lazy lizard-woman. I know she's supposed to be thin and pale,but I didnt imagine her as thin as she is in the book,and her hair could have been longer. Baum says that her hair was black and it isnt in _Glinda_. Aunt Em and Miss.Gulch: Aunt Em tells Ms.Gulch:"For 23 years I've been dying to tell you what I've thought of you. And now.....well,being a christian woman I cant say it!". What was she so desparate to say? New Oz Story: I just had this great iedia for a new Oz story a few days ago. Tell me if its a good one. Here is the story plot: As you all know,Snow-White's wicked stepmother(the evil queen)died because she was so angry that her stepdaughter was prettier than she was. Her nerves burst in rage and she collapsed. If a certain fairy,witch,sorceress or wizard dies,he/she goes to the Land of the Dead before going to hell/heaven. If the fairy/wizard was wicked,he will suffer for a long period of time. Well,the wicked queen,who is also a powerful sorceress finds a loophole in the Land of the Dead and manages to escape and comes back to life. She returns to her castle(which is located in a fairy kingdom)and she consults her magic mirror once more. The mirror tells her that Snow-White died long ago and the fairest woman of all is a princess called Ozma,Queen of all Oz. The Queen is determined to kill Ozma and so she goes to Oz to destroy her and try and conquer Oz,since everyone in her own kingdom left ever since she "died". Anyone will think that its childs-play to capture her and enchant her or something but trouble is...she is immune to all magic powers and so magic powers wont affect her,not even the Forbidden Fountain. The only way to get rid of her,is to murder her without any magic of any sort but the Ozites are too kind to do such a thing....but there are other enemies who will be willing to. Please tell me what you think of my iedia is on the coming Digest...Does it sound stupidor farfetched? --Gehan ============================================================= "In all the world there's no place like home.......execpt Oz!" ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 May 99 09:51:09 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: fathoming leagues in Oz Bea Premack: I don't know what's currently in print in the way of Oz translations, but ozmama@aol.com and hermbieber@aol.com (Robin Olderman and Herman Bieber) in their bookdealing doings might be able to supply you with some new or, for that matter, some old. Some of the Japanese and Italian translations have had strikingly attractive illos. Michael Turniansky: I don't think the stories about pets finding their owners (at least, not the well documented examples) involve finding the owners in a new location. Usually, the story is about a pet finding its way home from far away. How Eureka got back to Oz is doomed to be a mystery in terms of getting an answer from inside the R&L Oz books, but not in terms of holding opinions about probable answers. David Hulan's answer, that Eureka snuck along in "Road" is one plausible solution. Another possibility might be that Dorothy visited Ozma (signaling to come visit as at end of "Dorothy and the Wizard") in between the two books, and Eureka came along with her (either by stealth, or by managing to communicate to Dorothy that she wanted to be able to talk again). Or -- getting kind of implausible, but still possible -- if she found her own way as far as the Deadly Desert (maybe by finding a little residual magic in a pocket around the Butterfield crossing?), she might have managed to contact an Animal Fairy (King of the Fairy Beavers from "John Dough," maybe, or someone in Burzee Forest?) who could help her to Oz. David Hulan and Michael Turniansky: Looks as if Verne must have meant "fathoms" ("brasses") rather than "leagues" ("lieues"). I wonder if the popularity of his "20,000 Lieues" might have led to a general confusion over just what kind of length a "league" implied. (RPT can't very well have been thinking of "leagues" as being the same as "fathoms" -- 600 feet between Sapphire City and Keretaria is much too short. But she might have been thinking of a league as something vaguely intermediate.) David Godwin: I don't think it's quite correct to say that most people think growing up is worth the pains -- most people don't have a choice in the matter. When a choice is assumed for a story, it's fairly common to suppose that a substantial number might want to avoid growing up (besides Oz, Barrie's "Neverland," and the "Littles" in George MacDonald's "Lilith"). RPT wrote an interesting story, "The Princess of Cozytown" (the title story in her early collection of her short work, and I reprinted the story as a "Dunkitown" pamphlet recently), in which the abandoned toys object to losing their princess to adult life. // Sex in Oz -- well, if having babies is not definite evidence of sexual relations, then there can't very well be much evidence in the books, but that isn't in itself evidence of whether there could be sex going on where the kids don't get to see it. The Nome King's desire to have Polychrome as his wife or sister or any relation ("Tik-Tok") might indicate that Nomes at least don't quite know what sex is. But both the gallant Ree-alla-bad ("Ojo") and the brutish Mogodore ("Jack Pumpkinhead") seem too "grown-up" to be content with a sexless marriage. The question of whether there could be sexual crimes in Oz and, if so, what to do about them is a subset of the question of whether there could be crimes at all and what to do about them. There are, after all, procedures already available in Oz for punishing crimes and trying to prevent more of the same (going to Tollydiggle's gentle jail, drinking the waters of oblivion, getting exiled, getting exploded or otherwise destroyed). Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 May 99 14:11:23 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things NEW BAUM BIO?: Has anyone seen a book called _Oz and Beyond: The Fantasy World of L. Frank Baum_ by Michael O. Riley? I saw it at Border's. but couldn't browse through it because it was wrapped up in "celephant". :) Another reason to like Border's: They carry Dick Martin's _Cut and Assemble the Emerald City_! "THE ORKS AND THE JITTERBUGS": Bob C. wrote: >Personally, I don't think that we can assume that. I beleive that there >are some teenagers on the digest, and other youngsters who may browse with >their parents. Point taken, hence my "warning" at the start of today's Digest (and any others in which this "sex" debate continues...) This may be the sort of angle to the World of Oz that warrants a separate discussion group... :) RUGGEDO: J.L. Bell wrote: ><> >Why do we need one? We already know he regained his memory after EMERALD >CITY, and the mechanism there is not much clearer. Didn't he re-learn evil ways from other Nomes, which is why the second time around Ozma thought it would be safer to keep him in the Emerald City? GEHAN: >*.Dorothy: She could have been more chubbier with thicker hair. Shanower's >Dorothy is [ideal]! I agree -- Shorts and all! >*.Ozma: I hate her hair in Neill's drawings. Her face isnt so nice either. >Dick Martin and Eric Shanower drew Ozma exeptionally well. I like some of Neill's Ozma portraits, esp. in _Tin W._ and _Kabumpo_, but his "action shots" of Ozma are not too good. Also, I don't like the way Ozma looks arrogant in many of Neill's pics. I like Dick Martin's Ozma best. >*.Coo-ee-oh: