] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DEC. 30, 1999 - JANUARY 2, 2000 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 29 Dec 99 14:35:29 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: flabbergas in oz J.L. Bell: "Scalawagons" doesn't say anything about whether the Wizard invented flabbergas or whether it already existed. I'll make a guess (based on the location of the Scalawagon factory in an otherwise uninhabited spot of Quadling country) that we're meant to assume that it already existed, but that no one figured out a way to use it until the Wizard happened across a flabbergas spring there and stopped to figure out a use for the flabbergasting substance. (By the way, checking a dictionary, I see "flabbergast" listed as of unknown origin and dating from 1772.) But if you want to write a story in which he invented it, or the peli-cans were using it earlier to preen themselves with and told him it was an interesting substance he should look at, or he read about it in the collected writings of Quadling witch Aunt Geranium, or whatever, it's up for grabs. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 19:47:44 -0500 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-29-99 John Kennedy: > As to "best fantasy", I'd want to re-view it, first, but, based on my > memories alone, I'd say "Krull", another film that doesn't get enough > respect. > Well, I am not usually moved to write out of disagreement, but I must say we are diamterically opposed here. Krull has the ignoble distinction of being the only movie I ever walked out of before the end. It was shown at my college, and my friends being in the audiovisual club, I got in free, so suffered no financial loss for so doing, but still, the fact remains I just couldn't stomach that movie. YMMV. Still your friend, tho --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 08:37:36 +1100 From: Gehan Subject: Ozzy Things Hello from Oz! Tyler, John Bell and David(Hulan): No, what I meant was that if Ozma has existed since the beginning of time, Glinda must have existed even before Ozma, because Glinda is wiser and has more experiance. I didfnt mean that she SAW Ozma's mother giving birth to her or anything. David(Hulan):(On Princess Ozma) I havent seen ANY of those musicals you mentioned. As for your theory on Ozma.....Its like, the first few Baum Books seem to imply that Ozma is not a 'fairy', she was just an ordinary little girl, born to the late King Pastoria. But in later books, he implies that Ozma is a fairy who was with Queen Lurline when she first came to Oz and enchanted it. I dont accept Jack Snow's theory, since I dont accept his books in any case, but then in 'Merry Go Round in Oz', Ozma remembers spending time with the Fairy Unicorn, ages ago in the Forest of Burzee. Also, Thompson states in 'Kabumpo' that Ozma has lived for ALMOST thousand years. My guess is that Ozma IS the boilogical daughter of King Pastoria and his wife(who may have been a fairy queen), yet everyone THINKS she has existed for thousands of years simpyl because she's a fairy. True, she herself states in 'Glinda of Oz' that she WAS with Queen Lurline's fairy band when Queen Lurline first came and enchanted Oz, but my guess is that Princess Ozma was just repeating rumours or something..... Scott: Thanks for giving me the name of the actress who played Mombi I(I faintly remembered that her name started with 'S') Dave: I dunno.....I just like the Ozzy Digest far better than Tik-Tok-Talk for SOME strange reason. Probably because.....Oh I dont know.......I think that whoever thats criticising the Ozzy Digest is JUST doing it out fo jealousy and hatred.......Maybe the 'critics' have a personal grudge agaisnt some of the Digesters? Jean Marsh: Some Digesters said that Jean Marsh portrays Mombi more like Princess Langwidere or Queen Coo-ee-oh. I dont think thats true. Sophie Ward plays Mombi closer to Langwidere, but NOT Fiona Victory and Jean Marsh. Jean Marsh doesnt even LOOK like Coo-ee-oh, since Baum stated that Coo-ee-oh appears to be a young girl who's about 16-17 years of age.....and her personality is TOTALLY different..... Tyler: Your right. Chris Dulabone CAN get quite touchy at times, and get hurt without an actual reason. (I'm not bashing Chris, I'm just saying what I noticed about him). However, its a shame that Chris left sincee he was such a great, friendly Digester, and knew so much about Oz...... To Nathan on Del Rey Paperbakc: Your right.....Del Rey DID publish 'Yellow Knight' 'Pirates' 'Purple Prince' and 'Ojo'. I have the first nine Thompson books in Del Rey, and I've also ordered 'Pirates' and 'Purple Prince' in Del Rey paperback edition....... Untill next time! Ozzily yours, ~Gehan~ ==================================================================== Just been introduced, I do not know you well But when the music started something drew me to your side So many men and girls, all in each other's arms It made me think, we might be simmerlerly occupied. Shall we Dance? On a bright cloud of music shall we fly? Shall we dance? Shall we then say goodnight and mean goodbye? Or perchance, When the last little star has left the sky Shall we still be together, with our arms around each other, and shall you be my new romance? On the clear understanding, That this kind of thing can happen, Shall we Dance? Shall we Dance? Shall we Dance? -- 'Shall We Dance' (from 'King and I' - 1956) ==================================================================== ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 23:21:58 -0600 Subject: Ozzy Contradictions From: "David Godwin" Cognitive Dissonance, sort of: Musing at 65 mph on the freeway the other day (my Geo Metro won't quite make 70 without pulling a muscle), I began to wonder about a few things. We know that, at least during part of his career, L. Frank Baum was a Republican. He was also a man of his time, a true representative of the Gilded Age, a go-get-'em entrepreneur with an eye on the main chance and complete faith that hard work, imagination, and being in the right place at the right time to (a) perceptively notice and (b) aggressively take advantage of a golden opportunity would lead not only to financial security for oneself and one's family, but to immeasurable wealth. He was continually on the move - South Dakota, Chicago, California - looking for an opportunity that would finally pay off big time. We also continually read, starting with LFB himself, that Oz is intended to be a uniquely American fairyland, perhaps originally conceived as being in the middle of the Mojave. Okay, so here's the problem: Oz is a Marxist monarchy! Aside from such generalized concepts as "resourcefulness," for example, we don't really see many American values, such as Baum himself exemplified, until the books of John R. Neill. There is no democracy, and there are no elections before Jenny Jump comes along. Jenny is also the only obvious example I can recall of entrepreneurship; viz., her style shop. In Baum's books, most of the citizens of Oz are content to be farmers forever, with no drive, no ambition, no desire to better themselves. The few exceptions, such as Jinjur, are quickly put in their place. They are ruled by a benevolent despot, and the Emerald City has no trace of a parliament building. Even small communities are typically ruled by kings and/or queens. Not only is none of this particularly American, but it's also very unlike Baum's personal philosophy as expressed by most of his life. What gives? Did he really find the sort of life he led tedious and wearing, and did he find escape in his Oz stories? Did his opinions mellow and change over time? I just have trouble reconciling the apparent contradiction. Surely this has all been discussed and/or dealt with at some time or another? Dave H wrote: >What happened with our plan to write Hugh Pendexter and ask him to release >_Oz and the Three Witches_ to PD? Had someone volunteered to write him? Actually, I thought _you_ had. But maybe I just got that impression because ISTR that quite a few people just sort of seemed to _assume_ that you would be the one. I even seem to recall that you begged off for personal reasons or whatever but that you would take it up when things eased off a bit. Of course, I could be completely wrong. Gehan wrote: >I was wondering if SOMEONE could send me short summaries of March Laumer's >Oz Books, and would anyone by chance know where they are available? I contacted Mr. Laumer via e-mail last spring, at which time he said his books would be available when he returned to the US in October (I think it was), and he was kind enough to mail me a price list. Well, by the time October rolled around, he wasn't doing business anymore. So I don't know the answer to your question, but I wish I did, because there are a few I'd like to read myself. - David G. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 16:20:06 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu cc: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-29-99 Best musical films? I agree that _The Wizard of Oz_ doesn't work as a musical. Films that do: _Singin' in the Rain_, _Jesus Christ Superstar_, _Tommy_, _The Wiz_, _Little Shop of Horrors_. I forgot to mention I want David Hyde Pierce to play Wogglebug in _Tip of Oz_. ============================================================================ ==== Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! "Militaries are inherently the most corrupt organizations in the world, simply because their mission is to kill people and break things." ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 16:22:44 -0500 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: It's my birthday, and aging's on my mind charset=ISO-8859-1 Tyler Jones, I just tried visiting your site again, and still got "404" messages after clicking on the months for digests. (I hope you realize all this work we're asking from you just shows how much we appreciate you!) David Godwin wrote of: <> I'm not familiar with this title. I presume it's a take on Oz from an established science-fiction writer, an area of publishing I've never been able to keep in my head. Gehan Cooray wrote: <> Perhaps what you're perceiving is Dorothy's greater knowledge of herself and Oz. Her actions don't necessarily require her to have more emotional or cognitive maturity. She might still be thinking like a typical ten-year-old, viewing the world as ten-year-olds see it, and having a ten-year-old's desires. In OZMA, for instance, it's clear that Dorothy's more confident than she was in WIZARD. She hasn't aged that much or become a whole lot more mature, but events worked out for her so well before that she's become more willing to defy grown-ups and take on adult tasks. Dorothy's still thinking like a little girl in OZMA, though. She has to be talked into seeing other points of view, for instance. We could have all sorts of fun with the discrepancy between chronological and developmental maturity in a land without aging. For instance, do the parents of an Ozian toddler suffer through sixty years of the terrible two's before they manage to get their child to grow up? Or does the choice to stop aging itself require a certain amount of maturity? When does a person who need never die enter midlife? In Number Nine's family, as I recall, boys stop aging at 12 and girls at 10. That would mean Nine's older sister Six is now two years younger than he. It would also mean he and his brothers are stuck forever at the emotional level of seventh-grade boys. Oh, the horror, the horror! J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 16:55:33 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu cc: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-29-99 Amendments: > Wiz, Aysecik ve Sihirli Cuceler Ruyalar Ulkesinde, Volshebnik Izumrudnogo Goroda (1994) ^note spelling correction--stuck keys at the terminal I was using. > > > > Least Fav. Oz Book/s - Out of what I've read so far........The Road to > Oz, The Magic of Oz, The Cowardly Lion of Oz, How the Wizard Came to Oz, > The Braided Man of Oz, but the WORST was Ozma and the Wayward Wand (I have > Dorothy - Return to Oz, but it's unread.) and Dorothy of Oz > > > > Least Fav. Oz Author and why? - I haven't read past _Pirates_, so I'll > say Polly Berends and Donald Abbott Roger Baum, too. URL correction: > > Is the MGM Movie your favourite movie ? - No, but it ranks among many > others. See http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi/influences.html if you are > really interested. > > > Fav. Oz Actor (out of all the Oz Movies you've seen so far) - > Christopher Passi, Pierre Couderc, Marc Lewis, Ray Bolger, Stephen Boe, > Valeri Nosik I forgot Pons Maar!!! > Fav. Oz Actor (out fo all the Oz Movies you've seen so far) - Who > can top Nipsy Russell?! I forgot him, too, but since I want to cast him, I guess it's a given... > Scott H.: > >IMHO, I would consider horror and fantasy overlapping genres, but there > >are many horror films for which "fantasy" would be inappropriate, > >particulalry those that deal with psychotic killers that have nothing > >supernatural about them. _The Silence of the Lambs_ is an example of a > >good horror film that could not be considered fantasy. > > Good point. But a lot of horror films are definitely fantasy. I don't question that. I'm trying to get the IMDb to list the Evil Dead films, Suspiria, and Inferno as fantasies, but they son't seem to want to, even though it's set up to list multiple genres. > Jim Whitcomb has posted info about a couple dozen of the presenters who are > scheduled to speak at the Oz Centennial event on the centennial site. > http://www.geocities.com/~ozfan/ozcenten.htm for you heretics who don't have > it bookmarked. :) Check it out. And yes, that's THE Alison Lurie and THE > Philiip Jose Farmer not impersonators. Now Ms. Lurie will be able to get me for swiping pictures from her book for my MIMP website... I need to see _Swing Time_ again... Scott ====================================================================== From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 15:34:17 -0700 charset="iso-8859-1" 2K or not 2K: My lone precaution against Y2K will be to shut off my computers over the weekend. Therefore, my web site is going down in an hour or so and will not be up until January 3, 1900. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-29-99 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 23:21:06 GMT Tyler: >>I think BOW say that she has a sister called 'Belinda' who became the Good >>Witch of the North after Tattypoo was >disenchanted.......Thats what Chris >>Dulabone told me anyway. >This is the plot of a Chris Dulabone book. I can't remember which >one, >though. Actually, it's from _The Enchanted Gnome of Oz_, which was published by Chris, but written by Greg Hunter. It's actually a pretty good read, but it's currently out of print. I managed to pick up a used copy at a convention. David Hulan: >Either way, the infant appears to retain no memory of her earlier >life, at >least in the limited exposure we have to Ozma's thinking. In _Merry Go Round_, doesn't Ozma remember the Unicorn from her time with Lurline's band? >I didn't reread the whole of _Scalawagons_, but I did scan through >the >part where flabbergas was introduced and there's no mention of its origins >there. I doubt if it's explained elsewhere. I saw _Scalawagons_ in a Borders the other day (the same store at which I had purchased several Emerald City Press books, although none were in stock yesterday; I'm not sure if they just weren't selling or what), and glanced at that same part. The point of the flabbergas is never really explained; the Wizard tells Tik-Tok not to touch it, and then mysteriously vanishes. He does that quite a bit in Neill's books. And, speaking of the Wizard's characterization, David also wrote: >>Least Fav. Oz Character and why? Depends on what you mean. Mooj, >Wutz, >>and the Erbs are the characters I'd least like to encounter. Thompson's >>version of the Wizard is probably the worst-executed character in >the >>books, in that he's on-stage a fair bit and acts badly most of the >time >>when he is, contrary to Baum's characterization of him (at least >after >>the >first book). Mooj does seem to be one of the more sinister Oz villains, from the little we've seen of him. As for the Wizard thing, I was actually going to bring that up as part of the _Lost King_ discussion, as that seems to be the first book in which the distinctly Thompsonian Wizard plays a major part. I might as well do that now, since it will probably be time for _Lost King_ discussion when the next Digest arrives. The Wizard, as Thompson presents him, tends to be very jealous and competitive. Note that, during _Lost King_, he doesn't want the Morrow mystery solved without his help, and ends up bringing everyone to a strange place without thinking ahead. His competitive side is best demonstrated when he is trying to achieve the same ends as another magic worker (most notably Jinnicky in _Purple Prince_ and Waddy in _Speedy_). This new side to the Wizard is interesting, but maybe not quite in line with what Baum had originally intended. Why the change? Well, Thompson was clearly working from elements in _Land_ when she wrote _Lost King_, and perhaps her change in the Wizard was so that he would be more believable as the one who brought Ozma to Mombi (as explained in _Land_). Another possibility is that Thompson just didn't write humble, resourceful straight men all that well. Note that Baum's two major examples of this character type, the Shaggy Man and Cap'n Bill, were only mentioned in passing throughout the entire nineteen Thompson Oz books. I'll probably have more thoughts on _Lost King_ before the next Digest is sent out. It's really one of my favorite Thompson titles, and I have a lot to say about it. Dave Hardenbrook: >Mark wrote: >>that book i talked abotu before the dictonary of imaginary places or >some >>such title is out its 40 bucks and thers 2 pretty good maps of oz >and >>lands outside oz > >Though they're kinda oddly shaped if you're used to the Hanff-Martin >maps... Actually, I'm pretty sure that the Dictionary maps are copies of the Haff-Martin ones, but with the dimensions oddly changed (perhaps so they would fit better on the pages of the Dictionary). Note that the cartographer was probably not very familiar with the books, and he misspelled names that were fairly illegible on the maps, but that actual readers probably would have known. "Kalidahs" is spelled "Kalidaks," Howzatagin is "Howrahagin," and Loxo is "Loco." Also, while Haff and Martin usually use simple dots for houses and circled dots for towns, the Dictionary cartographer uses simple dots for both. >(For you fellow Harry Potter fans, the just-released new edition of >_Dictionary of Imaginary Places_ also has an entry for Hogwarts.) I have an older edition, and I took a peek in the new edition about a month ago. I'm a bit disappointed that neither edition contains places from any Oz books after _Patchwork Girl_. This is especially disappointing when you consider that some of the entries in the Dictionary are from hard-to-find works, and most of the later Oz books are widely available. Nathan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: The Lost King of Oz (SPOILERS) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 02:12:07 GMT Just a few more comments to add some fuel to the upcoming _Lost King_ discussion: One part that I found fairly disturbing was that the Kimbles seemed to have no problem with eating a talking goose. The books are never too clear on where the meat in Oz comes from, but I think this is the only case in which people are actually willing to have a sentient animal killed for food. Note that Snip is not surprised to find that the proposed dinner can talk, only to find that it recognizes Mombi, and knows that she enchanted the King. In Chapter 1, Thompson states that "[t]here are no stores in Oz." This not only contradicts many other books, but also other information in _Lost King_. First of all, Mombi threatens to turn Snip to sixpence and spend him at the next village. True, this doesn't necessarily mean that there are any stores there, but it seems likely. The more conclusive proof that this statement is unfounded occurs in Blankenburg, where Tora has a tailor SHOP. Really, most of the "no whatever in Oz" statements are contradicted at some point in the series, often BEFORE the statement appears. To give just a few examples: A few Baum books (as well as Thompson's _Royal Book_) state that the Sawhorse is the only horse in Oz, which seems unlikely given the information in the first two books. While no real horses actually appear in those books, there are several hints that the Ozites are familiar with the animals. When fed oatmeal during _Wizard_, the Cowardly Lion remarks that oats are food for horses, not lions. Tip recognizes the Sawhorse as a horse, and the person who created the wooden equine must also have known what a horse looks like. Still, the fact that the Emerald City-ites have no idea what to feed a horse in _Dorothy and the Wizard_ seems plausible. It isn't that there are no horses in Oz, just none in the Emerald City area. Note that Oz was isolated in the reign of the Wizard, and probably continued to be that way during the early years of Ozma's reign. My guess is that there had been horses in the outlying regions of Oz, but they were very rare in the more central regions. Note that there are many horses in Thompson's books, but most of them tend to live in more remote regions of Oz. Once these more remote Oz regions were discovered by Ozma, however, horses were probably introduced into the more central regions. In Neill's books, they seem to be fairly common throughout the country, and there are also mules. Really, I think that this idea can explain some of the other generalizations. For instance, consider the money problem. In _Road_, the Tin Woodman states that there is no money in Oz, but we see currency used in later books. This is most common in Thompson's works, but it is also used in Jinxland during _Scarecrow_. I think it is likely that, while one inhabitant of the Emerald City might well perform a service for his neighbors without being paid, a merchant coming in from Jinxland or another outlying kingdom, located nowhere near the Royal Storehouses mentioned in _Emerald City_, would prefer an immediate material reward. Two of the odder generalizations, which really can't be explained away in that manner, occur when Baum states that Toto is the first dog in Oz, and Billina the first chicken. _Wizard_ places both a hen and a rooster in the Emerald City, and _Land_ puts a green dog in that same city. Thompson's statement that there are no ferries in Oz (found in _Royal Book_) is also strange, considering that there had been ferries in both _Land_ and _Lost Princess_. Okay, that's all I have to say at the moment. Sorry for the multiple posts, but I'm having trouble writing everything all at once. Maybe I should hold off on more _Lost King_ comments until the discussion officially starts. Nathan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 16:10:21 EST Subject: Oz Gehan: Dorothy's age is one of the great mysteries of all time (at least in Oz). THe general consensus is that she was about six when she first came to Oz in _Wizard_, and was maybe around 9-12 when she moved there permanently. In _Lost Princess_, Dorothy is said to be a year older than Trot and a year younger than Betsy. In _Giant Horse_, Trot says "me too" when Philador says that he is 10 years old. You can do the math. I don't think that it's necessary for Dorothy to age physically in order to mature emotionally. Years of life experience will probably do that, even in Oz. However, she may have aged a few years to just at the teen level. March Laumer has her at 16 in _Emerald City_, but that's probably a bit high. Stephen Teller may be able to provide you with summaries of Laumer's books. IMHO, they are all good except for _Green Dolphin_. They are really not generally available any more, due to March's poor physical condition. Dave: I will gladly write a summary of _OZ and the Three Witches_ and post it, but I would rather post that AND the full text. I may have been the one who volunteered to write to him. If you give me his address, I will write again. IMHO, this is a very important book for those interested in Pre-Dorothean Oz. OzMinistration: How do I inform the IWOOC that I have changed addresses? How/When can I order _Hidden Prince_? Does anybody know who is in charge of the estate of Chris Sterling? This post may not go out on the digest for a few days, so let me be retroactive... As my sole concession to Y2K (which does not seem to have affected New Zealand at the time of this writing) I have turned off my computers in my office. Therefore, my web site was (will be) unavailable from Dec. 30 to January 3. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== From: "sprichards" Subject: Survey on Oz, Ojo in Oz, and other things Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 17:00:50 -0800 Hello! I haven't said anything for a while, so I'll say something now. Survey: Name: Justin Richards Sex: Male How did you get to know Oz: My parents loved THE WIZARD OF OZ movie and I liked it too and for Christmas of 1991 (or was it 1992?) I got THE WONDERFUL WIZARD OF OZ and DOROTHY AND THE WIZARD IN OZ and I enyojed them and then I recived GLINDA OF OZ and THE PATCHWORK GIRL OF OZ and went on from there. What other Oz Movies do you like other than WOZ and RTO: Well, I like THE PATCHWORK GIRL OF OZ silent film...and I've seen some 1990 animated Wizard of Oz shows, and all 4 silent flims. Nothing else besides WOZ and RTO Fav. Oz Character and why: This is a hard one...I like Ojo because he is very adventurous and brave, but I like the Weenix from the LOST KING OF OZ (I feel sorry that he can't say much other than Ka-Woosh and he had a small part) and Mombi because she's mean and a good villain. I love Ruggedo the Gnome King too! Ozma is very kind, but the Scarecrow...or Snufferbux... Least fav. Oz character and why: Probably Mooj the Clockmaker and King Ticket. Mooj scared the wits out of me when I first read OJO IN OZ and King Ticket...I don't have a reason for disliking him...but I dislike him! MGM Movie or RTOz: I like Return to Oz a lot because it is like the books, but the MGM Movie is more 'happy' like Baum wanted it to be. But I love both! If they cut out the mental-shock scene, RTO would be better. But Dorothy doesn't enjoy Oz until the end, but in WOZ, she smiles and loves every moment...except the witch. The movie or the books: THE OZ BOOKS!!!!!!!!!!! Fav. Oz books: Glinda of Oz, Ojo in Oz, Ozma of Oz, Jack Pumpkinhead of Oz, Merry-Go-Round in Oz Least Fav. Oz books: Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz, The Road to Oz, the Hungry Tiger of Oz, the Gnome King of Oz, The Scalawagons of Oz, Magical Mimics in Oz, etc Fav. Oz Author: I like L. Frank Baum because his books are quite adventurous...Ruth Plumly Thompson because her stories have more puns, I don't like Jack Snow, or Neil too much, Rachel Cosgrove's two books are wonderful, and so are the McGraw's books. So I don't know. Proabably L. Frank Baum Least Fav. Oz Author: Jack Snow. His book are quite dark, although I am from Buffalo and like how he mentioned it in THE SHAGGY MAN OF OZ, I don't like either of the stories too much. Neil is behind him. Fav. Oz Illustrator: John R. Neil, followed by Eric Shanower, followed by Dick Martain. Least Fav. Oz Illustrator: Frank Kramer followed by Dirk. Are Oz Books your favorite series: YES! Harry Potter books come after them Is the Movie your favorite Movie: Well....yes...followed by Return to Oz, Bedknobs and Broomsticks, The Sound of Music, Olivia Newton John/Gene Kelly's Xanadu, and Brigadoon! Have you written any Oz Books? If so, what are they? If not, do you intend to write any? -Yes, I have TONS of books. I'll only breifly describe them. The Voyage to Oz---A Captain Salt, King Ato, Tandy, and Roger adventure on the high seas right after CAPTAIN SALT IN OZ. Revenge On Oz---Ruggedo, Gludwig, and some witches who were restored to life plot to conquer Oz. The Scalet Prince of Oz---I am down to the last three chapters on this. Jason and Dusty the Golden Retriver (my characters) go to Ev where they meet Jinnicky the Red Jinn and they take a ride in his Jinnerinisha which tunnels underground to OZ. Dusty and a dalmation have some adventures in Bunbury, while Dorothy and Kiki Aru are stuck in the Gnome Kingdom with Gloma the Witch of the Black Forest! Ozma has gone to Telracs, a kingdom where they are at war with another kingdom to stop the war. But Prince Derred has his heart set on Princess Cinnomin (spelled that way on purpose) while they must stop Zog's brother Zog-A-Nog from destroying Oz and capturing Trot and Cap'n Bill. Sounds complicated, but it really isn't! I may have to re-name it. (Purple Princes and Hidden Princes, now a Scarlet Prince? How about the Red King in Oz?) Jinnicky in Oz/The Red Jinn of Oz---A Jinnicky story where the Red Jinn of Ev and a Hippopoztomas must save Oz from the Human Beans led by Kid Knee the Konkerer who have already captured Ev. The Secret Tunnel Under Oz---About how Ozma closed up the tunnel in THE EMERALD CITY OF OZ and found it open in THE SHAGGY MAN OF OZ and how two children travel through it to the Gnome Kingdom and to OZ. I have some other ideas too. Fav. Oz Website: Eric Gjovaag's Oz Site, Tyler's site, Wendy's Oz site, the IWOC's site, and some others that I don't know the names to. What do you have in your Oz Collection: The Famous Forty Oz books, 11 Reilly and Lee books, a 1st edition GRAMPA IN OZ, a 1st edition LOST KING OF OZ, a 1st edition JOHN DOUGH AND THE CHERUB, a 1st edition YELLOW KNIGHT OF OZ, a 1st edition JACK PUMPKINHEAD OF OZ, and a 1920 edition of THE EMERALD CITY OF OZ, some Books of Wonder books and stuff, Tails of the Cowardly Lion and Friends books, all 5 Oz-Story magazines, 100 years of Oz, 50th anniversary things, Oz videos/dvd's, Oz club books, and other stuff. Do you create any Oz fan stuff: Well, I made paper dolls from my sister based on The Oz Toy Book and The Oz Toy Book Volume Two. Fav. Oz Actress: Margret Hamilton Are there any Oz Actors/Actressess who didnt quite fit their parts 'ozzily': Billie Burke. Fav. Oz Actor fo all: Ray Bolger If you could create an Oz Movie/Cartoon/TV Series, what would it all be about? And who would star in it: I would have an episode for most of the Famous Forty, but I don't know who would star in it. I am a member of IWOC and Royal Club of Oz. If I would change one thing: I also wouldn't have Tattypoo transform. **************************************************************************** **************************************************** I like the plan of whoever suggested to pay someone to photocopy a book for people who don't have it. But here are some other ideas: Somebody could type up a book and E-Mail it to someone Someone could post chapters (Not a good idea, would take up too much space) I have started typing up OJO IN OZ word-for-word and it's taken me two days to do three and a half chapters. I'll volenteer to send it to people interested later on if they don't have it (it's my favorite FF book along with GLIDNA OF OZ) but now it is for my own purposes. But I'll E-Mail it to people if you think it's a good idea. I don't want to get sued or in trouble or anything, so I'm still not sure yet. But if you are interested, E-Mail me at kabumpo@hotmail.com. Sorry for the long post, I haven't posted in a while anyway. From, Justin Richards ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 14:19:27 -0800 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: March Laumer David G. wrote >I contacted Mr. Laumer via e-mail last spring, at which time he said his >books would be available when he returned to the US in October (I think it >was), and he was kind enough to mail me a price list. Well, by the time >October rolled around, he wasn't doing business anymore. So I don't know the >answer to your question, but I wish I did, because there are a few I'd like >to read myself. I'm glad you mentioned this, because it reminded me... I received a letter from Mr. Laumer a couple of weeks ago, and with one thing and another I forgot to share it with the group, for which I apologize. Anyway, here it is (words I couldn't quite make out are in brackets): ----------------------------------------- Dear Mr. H[ardenbrook]: I wish you'd spread this thick and continually on the Internet and in the Digest. I being terminal (skeleton cancer) in a hospice [sic], I'm passing from the scene. All true Oz devotees are cordially invited to go to my house in Largo, FL & carry off at no charge Oz-publishing souveniers: [printed vats], publi-[remainders], picture printing blocks; by contacting [sic]: Hubbard: (727) 523-1203. It's real! I'll be grateful... March Laumer ----------------------------------------- -- Dave ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 14:58:09 -0800 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things At 02:12 AM 12/31/99 +0000, Nathan wrote: >In Chapter 1, Thompson states that "[t]here are no stores in Oz." This >not only contradicts many other books, but also other information in _Lost >King_. If she *had* to say anything on the subject, she should have said "there are *few* stores in Oz"... "All" and "no" are dangerous words! :) >David Hulan: > >Either way, the infant appears to retain no memory of her earlier >life, at > >least in the limited exposure we have to Ozma's thinking. > >In _Merry Go Round_, doesn't Ozma remember the Unicorn from her time with >Lurline's band? Hippikaloric, I hope not! Ozma's non-memory of her life in Lurline's band is a plot device in the third book in my trilogy... Might this have been in (non-Canonical and so I don't feel so guilty about contradicting it) _Mysterious Chronicles of Oz_? I seem to have a memory...) Justin wrote: >How about the Red King in Oz? The Red King *does* show up along with other Carrollians in Martin Gardner's _Visitors From Oz_. -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JANUARY 3 - 5, 2000 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 17:02:43 -0500 (EST) From: LoracLegid@aol.com Subject: F.O.C. Darley (1821-1888) You might like to visit the web page established for F.O.C. Darley, Dicken's American illustrator. www.focdarley.org The catalog of the 1996 Exhibition of Denslow's works at the Brandywine River Museum is still available --W.W DENSLOW, The Other Wizard of Oz, essay by Michael Patrick Hearn. LOC Number 96-083578. I picked up a copy yesterday at the Museum. My 1907 edition of Ozma of Oz is illustrated by O'Neil. Carol Digel LoracLegid@aol.com ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 17:57:39 -0600 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-29-99 Lisa: >Least Fav. Oz Character and why? - Ummm ... probably Cap'n Bill ... some >of the crossovers weren't that good. Could you elaborate on that a bit? Cap'n Bill is one of my favorite characters, and I'm not sure what you mean by "crossovers." Do you mean _Sea Fairies_ and _Sky Island_? I'll agree that the former is fairly weak (though better than _DotWiz_ or _Road_ or _L&A of Santa Claus_), but the latter is probably my favorite Baum of all. Bob C.: >Fav. Oz Book/s - The Road to Oz, because we meet Polychrome, Patchwork Girl, >Glass Cat, Umm...Polychrome, yes, but we meet Scraps and the Glass Cat later in _Patchwork Girl_. In _Road_ the other continuing characters we meet are the Shaggy Man and Button-Bright. >Fav. Oz Author and why? - L. Frank Baum, David Hulan *blush* Thank you. >If you could change just ONE thing in the FF Books, what would it be? - That >Glinda and her book of records should have known that the wizard was a >humbug from the start. He should have never been able to take over Oz. But >without him we don't have a story do we? The best evidence is that Glinda didn't have her book of records until after the events of _Land_; if she had, she wouldn't have needed spies, and she should have known where (and who) Ozma was all along as well. She seems to have acquired it sometime between _Land_ and _Emerald City_. (Maybe a gift from Tititi-hoochoo?) Scott H.: > > The MGM movie is a more successful effort at movie-making, but RTO is more > > in keeping with the spirit of the books, and I enjoyed it more. >I'm not even sure I agree with this statement. I think RTO does have a >huge weakness in that everything is solved through a knock of the >heels--the shoes are too powerful to be interesting or dramatic. What is solved in RTO through a knock of the heels? Or did you mean in the MGM movie? If the latter, then the "it was all a dream" ending means that you can't apply normal dramatic criteria to the ending of the dream. John K.: >As to best movie musicals, I don't know that I've ever seen one that has >thoroughly impressed me. They all seem musically thin (all the Astaire >and Rogers -- pretty songs, but not great music), Well, no. But then stage musicals don't have great music either, at least IMHO. Not if you're going by the standard of Mozart or Puccini or Verdi or Wagner. I consider the songs from "Shall We Dance" as good as any the Gershwins did anywhere else; ditto for "Follow the Fleet" and Berlin. Jeremy: >Royal Club of Oz: >What is it? It's the proprietary Oz club run by BoW (with financial assistance from Morrow, I believe). See Dave's or Eric G.'s FAQs for more information. It's aimed more at younger Oz readers, but has material of interest to adult Oz fans as well. $9.95 a year to belong. It has some fun contests, Oz puzzles, and an exciting Oz serial told in the form of letters from Oz characters (transcribed and edited by yhos...). Gehan: >I was wondering about this subject for some time. In most of the Thompson >books, such as 'Wishing Horse of Oz' and even 'Merry Go Round in Oz', >Dorotyh acts fare more 'maturely' than she did in 'Emerald City of Oz', >despite the fact that she's been the same age the whole time. Its as if she >was about 8-9 in 'EC', but around 12-13 in most of the other books. D'you >suppose she was around 8-9 when she came to live in Oz for good, yet she >wanted to stop aging when she was around 11-12? Possibly. I don't think she acts that much younger in EC, though, except for a brief scene when she's first appealing to Ozma to bring Uncle Henry and Aunt Em to Oz. Otherwise, I think she acts around 11-12 from her reappearance in the Oz world in _Ozma_ through the rest of the books, with occasional lapses. (Her diction is pretty bad in _Ozma_, and occasionally in later books, but her actions are generally rational and mature most of the time.) Warren: > Hmm, just occurred to me to wonder if Oz's calendar system is the same as >ours. I.e., will 2000 start on Jan. 1 at 00:00:001 for them, too? The only date I know of that we have from Oz is the one in _Cowardly Lion_, where the Travelers' Tree was created by the Wizard Wam in 1120 (or something like that) O.Z. This would indicate that Oz doesn't use the Christian calendar, so is probably not celebrating the year 2000 at present. Dave: >Can you elaborate? What makes the Ozzy Digest better? With all the >recent Ozzy Digest-bashing, I'd like to know what I'm doing *right*... I suspect that the answer for both the pro- and anti-Digest forces has less to do with anything you're doing or not doing than with the people who choose to be active on the Digest. Those who enjoy the kind of meticulous exegesis of things Ozzy that we do here are going to like the Digest a lot; those who find it boring (or who disagree strongly enough with some of the opinions expressed that they find them offensive) aren't going to like it much. (But out of curiosity, what "recent Ozzy Digest-bashing"? I don't recall any such on the Digest itself; is this something that happened on the Tik-tok or other list?) >What happened with our plan to write Hugh Pendexter and ask him to release >_Oz and the Three Witches_ to PD? Had someone volunteered to write him? >( Do I have to do *everything*? :) ) I don't mind writing him if anyone knows his address. I don't. And I'll be willing to give a summary of its argument if nobody can come up with an address, though I'd need to reread it first. Would this be something that should be posted on the Digest proper, or as an archive of some sort? David Hulan ====================================================================== From: SeraMary@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 23:17:18 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-02-2000 Being that THE WIZARD OF OZ is OFFICIALLY 100 years old, will there be anything *NEW* to see this year about OZ at all ? ( movie, book, biography etc..... ) Lisa Marie ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 15:26:10 +1100 From: Gehan Subject: The Lost King of Oz & other Ozzy Things SPOILERS I think we should be able to start 'Lost King of Oz' discussions, now that almost everyone has finished with the Ozzy Survey I created. 'Lost King' is one of my fav. RPT books, along with 'Kabumpo in Oz' 'Cowardly Lion' 'Hungry Tiger' and 'Wishing Horse'. I think the dialogue is the BEST feature in this book.....Its betetr than ANY RPT Book I've EVER read, IMO, but the characters/plotlines/inicidents/ending/adventures are really interesting too. However, I dont like the way RPT keeps disenchanting everyone. Here's a list of characters she's disenchanted: The Scarecrow/Chang Wang Woe(she ALMOST disenchanted him) Peg Amy Urtha the Flowery Princess/Princess of Perhaps City Tora the Tailor/King Pastoria The forest maiden/Princess from 'The Giant Horse of Oz' Tattypoo/Queen Orin Sir Hokus/Prince of Corumbia There are many more in other books, which I cant quite place my finger on. I personally dont like her iedia of enchanting and DISenchanting people, because it CAN get quite annoying at times.....especially if the character was one fo your favourites.....It must be a habit of hers. The whole Tattypoo/Orin theory doesnt fit in with the Oz Books, and the Sir Hokus/Prince of Corumbia theory totally contradicts 'The Royal Book of Oz'. I also dont like the way she makes people forget their past whenever they're transformed. Just my two cents.... ~Gehan~ ================================ Whenever I feel afraid I hold my head erect and whistle a happy tune so no one will suspect, I'm afraid While shivering in my shoes I strike a careless pause and whistle a happy tune so no one ever knows, I'm afraid The result of this deception is very strange to tell for when I fool the people I fear I fool myself as well I whistle a happy tune and every single time the happiness in the tune convinces me that I'm, not afraid! Make believe your brave and the trick will take you far You may be as brave as you make believe you are You may be as brave as you make believe you are -- I Whistle a Happy Tune (The King and I) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 15:26:14 +1100 From: Gehan Subject: More Ozzy Things Tyler: I also think that Dorothy is 11-12, Betsy is 12-13 and Trot is 7-10. My own chronology chain for the Oz Books are: 1897 - The Wizard of Oz (I assume that Dorothy was 7+) 1898 - The Land of Oz 1899 - Ozma of Oz (Dorothy is 9) 1900 - Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz (Dorothy is 10) 1901 - The Road to Oz & The Emerald City of Oz (Dorothy is 11 and a half) 1902 - Little Wizard Stories of Oz & The Sea Fairies (Trot is 8) 1903 - The Patchwork Girl of Oz & Sky Island (Trot is 9) 1904 - Tiktok of Oz, The Scarecrow of Oz & Rinkitink in Oz (Trot is 10 and Betsy is 12) 1905 - The Lost Princess of Oz & The Tinwoodman of Oz 1906 - The Magic of Oz & Glinda of Oz 1907 - The Royal Book of Oz, Kabumpo in Oz & The Cowardly Lion of Oz 1908 - Grampa in Oz, The Lost King of Oz & The Hungry Tiger of Oz 1909 - The Gnome King of Oz & The Giant Horse of Oz So my guess is that Dorothy is actually 3 years older than Betsy BIOLOGICALLY, but CHRONOLOGICALLY one year younger. The same goes to Trot......She's biologically three years younger than Dorothy and 2 years younger than Betsy, but CHRONOLOGICALLY ONE year younger than Dot. I place 'Wizard of Oz' in 1897 because Baum began telling the story in 1898. I place 'Rinkitink in Oz' in 1904 because Baum originally wanted to start it off as a non-Oz story in 1905..... I place 'Lost Princess' an year after Betsy arrived in Oz because she claims never to have visited the Munchkin Country, and unless she has only lived in the EC for more than an year, this seems highly unlikely. True there ARE many things to do IN the Emerakd City, but surely Ozma and Dorothy would have decided to take Betsy around the Land of Oz for her to see what it looks like? If 'Gaint Horse' took place around the time RPT wrote the story, no way could Orin have been enchanted and turned into Tattypoo 25 years ago since then, as Dorothy herself came to Oz over 25 years ago since 'Giant Horse' and she met Tattypoo. So I place 'Giant Horse' in 1909 because Orin was supposed to have been transformed into Tattypoo 25 years ago since the time the story took place, and the Wizard himself states in 'Dotwiz' that when he came to Oz, there were two good witches ruled the North and South, and two bad witches ruled the East and the West. Well perhaps Mombi DID rule the NORTH at the time he came to Oz, yet he didnt want to even MENTION her, because he was guilty of handing baby Ozma over to her. I believe that the Wizard left Ozma in Mombi's care AFTER Tattypoo banished her(or Tattypoo would have disenchanted Tip when she came to Mombi's hut and chased her away), so according to MY own HACC, this would be around 1884-1885. This would mean that Tip would be around 13-14 by 'Land of Oz', if it DID take place in 1898 as I say, and that seems to fit in well enough since Baum identifies him as a 'youth' and not a 'little boy', and Ozma herself is supposed to be about 13-14. I also think that although the wicked witches conquered the four countries BEFORE the Wizard came to Oz, Mombi didnt turn King Pastoria into a tailor untill AFTER the Wizard came to Oz, though she may have turned Pajuka into a goose before. I believe that King Pastoria and his queen were hiding at Morrow, during the Wizard's reign. Here's MOPPET from then: King Pastoria's wife gave birth to Ozma around 1883-1885 since Ozma was a baby when the Wizard left her with Mombi, around the same time. However, Mombi found out Pastoria's hiding place in Morrow at the same time that Ozma was born, and though she threw Pastoria down a well, his queen ran away to the Wizard with her baby Ozma, and perhaps she explained to him who she was, and died soon after, leaving Ozma in the Wizard's care, who promptly handed her over to Mombi, afraid that she will realise that he was only a humbug wizard when she was a little older. And Mombi was only too glad, because she'd had been looking for Ozma since her mother ran away with her. You may wonder how Ozma says she was with Lurline's fairy band a thousand years ago, if she was born in 188?. Simple! Lurline could have de-aged Ozma back to a little baby and injected her into King Pastoria's wife's womb, as most Oz fans believe. Thats ONLY MY theory anyway.....It maybe too complicated for you to understand.... ~Gehan~ ================================ Whenever I feel afraid I hold my head erect and whistle a happy tune so no one will suspect, I'm afraid While shivering in my shoes I strike a careless pause and whistle a happy tune so no one ever knows, I'm afraid The result of this deception is very strange to tell for when I fool the people I fear I fool myself as well I whistle a happy tune and every single time the happiness in the tune convinces me that I'm, not afraid! Make believe your brave and the trick will take you far You may be as brave as you make believe you are You may be as brave as you make believe you are -- I Whistle a Happy Tune (The King and I) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 15:29:43 +1100 From: Gehan Subject: To Justin Justin: Dave's right. People might confuse your Red King with Lewis Carrol's Red King in 'Through the Looking Glass' if you call your book 'The Red King IN Oz'. 'The Red King OF Oz' woudl be better, or maybe even 'The Red RULER of Oz' or 'The Red PRINCE of Oz'. If you call it 'The Scarlet Prince of Oz', people might confuse him with the Prince of Rash, as RPT calls him the 'Scarlet Prince' in 'Hunrgy Tiger of Oz'. ~Gehan~ ==================================================================== Whenever I feel afraid I hold my head erect and whistle a happy tune so no one will suspect, I'm afraid While shivering in my shoes I strike a careless pause and whistle a happy tune so no one ever knows, I'm afraid The result of this deception is very strange to tell for when I fool the people I fear I fool myself as well I whistle a happy tune and every single time the happiness in the tune convinces me that I'm, not afraid! Make believe your brave and the trick will take you far You may be as brave as you make believe you are You may be as brave as you make believe you are -- I Whistle a Happy Tune (The King and I) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 3 Jan 00 10:35:10 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: lost king of oz Some "Lost King" comments. We've had a thread of discussion about influence of Carroll on RPT. This is one of the books where that influence is especially clear. The Backwoodsmen, with their back-talk and backward locomotion are like the early chapters of "Through the Looking Glass," although "back woods" is (I think) an Americanism. Dorothy's sudden increase and decrease in size are like Alice's (although caused differently and not happening more than once). Snip's fall down the well into a country of unpleasant people with an unpleasant queen and a set of peculiar laws is like Alice's fall down the rabbithole. There are also at least a couple of verbal echoes. Snip, while falling, reflects, "After this I shall think nothing of falling out of a button tree or down a flight of steps." Alice's thought is "After such a fall as this, I shall think nothing of tumbling downstairs!" (But RPT avoids the characteristically Carrollian turn where Alice goes on to think that she wouldn't say anything about it even if she fell off a house, and the narrative comments that that's very likely true.) Dorothy, after getting back to her child-size, says, "I can't imagine what's happened to me, but then everything is very queer lately." This resembles a couple of the things Alice says to the Caterpillar when she has trouble explaining who she is: "I know who I _was_ when I got up this morning, but I think I must have changed several times since then" and, when the Caterpillar denies that changing into a butterfly would be confusing, "All I know is, it would feel very queer to me." The book also draws on Baum's stageplay of "The Wizard," in naming the King Pastoria, and does an interesting job of extrapolating from Baum's very brief mentions of how the witches did away with Ozma's father to come up with the title character. Warren H. Baldwin: Oz's calendar system might be the same as ours in terms of months (for instance, the reference to Ozma's birthday as coming in August), but is probably not the same in terms of years. The Wizard Wam's Traveler's Tree has a plaque dated in OZ years ("Cowardly Lion"), and they might also use Hiergargo's calendar (as used in Tititihoochoo's land, "Tik-Tok"), which seems to be an older calendar. Happy new year, Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 3 Jan 00 14:47:38 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: generalizations in oz David Godwin: Interesting set of questions on Baum's politics. A part of the answer is probably that it's an exaggeration to describe him as "aggressively" looking for chances to find something that "would finally pay off big time." Diligent rather than aggressive, and looking for a small time payoff would be more precise (except the pay off when it came for him turned out to be bigger than expected), and on those terms closer to the modest expectations he assigns to the Ozites. If they'd had his problems and interests, they'd have moved around a lot more, too. Up until bankruptcy forced him out of ND newspapering, he was enjoying the business and the state enough to write an editorial (included in Nancy Kouras's book of his editorials) on how fine a community Aberdeen was going to be and how important it was to try to stick out the bad times. He didn't really go from Chicago to Hollywood for the purpose of getting into movies, but tried to getinto movies, since they were going on there, once he'd moved to enjoy the climate (and his writing business could be carried on anywhere). Also, being a "Republican" at the time was not necessarily a contradiction to being a "socialist." The monarchy is more surprising -- but Ozma as described seems to leave a lot of personal freedom to her so-called "subjects" (if you don't worry too much about how much offstage use she's making of the Magic Picture and her right to adjudicate disputes such as the one between Coo-ee-oh and the Su-Dic and suchlike questions). Nathan DeHoff: Suggestion that RPT's Wizard reflects the comments on him in "Land" -- interesting possibility. Maybe also some reflection of the Wizard as characterized in the stageplay? // Morality of eating a talking goose -- a difficulty that runs through a lot of the Oz books, starting with the Lion's disappearance into the woods in "Wizard" to get food for himself the narrative refuses to specify. It isn't clear if Baum and his successors were just dodging this point entirely, or were assuming (without wanting to specify) that carnivores in a country like Oz must be morally able to eat intelligent prey (although for omnivores the case would be less compelling). In Lewis's Narnia books, there is a sharp difference between Talking Beasts and ordinary speechless, unintelligent beasts, but the Oz authors probably weren't thinking along that line. J.L. Bell: "The Number of the Beast" was by Heinleim, and one section of it took place in Oz. You were mentioning various drawbacks to lack of aging in Oz -- that issue is important in Heinlein's take on it in "Number," so you might find it interesting to look up some time in spite of not being specially interested in stfnal Ozzes. (Not to mention the problem that "Number" is a non-stop gabfest between four characters who all sound a good deal alike. But the "Oz" section is an interesting take.) Dave Hardenbrook: "If she *had* to say anything on the subject she should have said `there are *few* stores in Oz' -- well, RPT probably did have to say _something_ on the subject. Otherwise, she could probably have expected some readers (perhaps the ones whose parents ran stores?) to ask why Kimbaloo peddled their buttons instead of sending them to stores to sell for them or setting up a store in Kimbaloo and letting customers come to them. As you and Nathan comment, "few" would have been better than "no" in almost all the generalizations of that sort scattered through the Oz books. On the other hand, it might be narratively awkward to stop and explain, "so few that for practical purposes throughout Oz or at least in this section of it it amounts to none," and just as awkward to omit explanation of the "so few it doesn't matter" variety. I'm inclined to suspect that saying "no" and leaving a footnote of "well, almost none" to be assumed by nitpickers like us is a better solution. (Nathan suggested that Tora's tailor shop itself contradicts the generalization, but I don't think it can be really considered a "store." He's selling a service rather than a stock of "diversified goods for retail sale.") Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 19:48:53 -0500 From: "John W. Kennedy" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-02-2000 Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky wrote: > Krull has the ignoble distinction of being the > only movie I ever walked out of before the end. Ah, but then you didn't _see_ the end. David Godwin wrote: > In Baum's > books, most of the citizens of Oz are content to be farmers forever, with no > drive, no ambition, no desire to better themselves. Precisely! Political thought cannot be mapped by marking two points, one marked "Democrat" and one "Republican", and then drawing the line determined by those two points. Just because we are told today that freedom = capitalism = material prosperity does not make it so; they are not inseparably linked even as philosophies, let alone as fact. To take but one example, not long before Baum was born, the great political debate in New York was between the "Loco Focos", who opposed all government regulation of business on the grounds that it led to extortionate monopolies, and Tammany, who condemned labor unions as philosophically contrary to the spirit of '76. It is always a grave mistake to assume that political polarities of another place or time are similar to the polarities of ones own, and the 19th century spent a good deal more time that we realize regretting itself. Nathan Mulac DeHoff wrote: > In Chapter 1, Thompson states that "[t]here are no stores in Oz." This not > only contradicts many other books, but also other information in _Lost > King_. First of all, Mombi threatens to turn Snip to sixpence and spend him > at the next village. True, this doesn't necessarily mean that there are any > stores there, but it seems likely. The more conclusive proof that this > statement is unfounded occurs in Blankenburg, where Tora has a tailor SHOP. I'm not sure that's a contradiction. A "shop" is not necessarily a "store". -- -John W. Kennedy -rri0189@ibm.net Compact is becoming contract Man only earns and pays. -- Charles Williams ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 21:39:21 -0500 From: "Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman" Subject: Request for beta readers Greetings, Ozzy Digesters. At long last I have awakened from my long lurk. The spirit of Ozziness has rested upon me again, resulting in the relatively imminent release of a new Oz fanfic and the start of new work on the mysterious Project RUR. Before I release my new fanfic to the public, however, I need a few people to look it over first. It is a crossover with the cartoon _Daria_, attempting to be a workable story for both worlds. What I'm afraid of is that the result is that fans of one world alone will find the story utterly incomprehensible. I therefore am asking (or rather begging) for a few volunteers to look over "Daria in Oz" so that I have some idea of what background information about Oz I still have to put in. Volunteers, please E-mail me directly. Thanks in advance to everyone for their help. Aaron -- Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman Pioneer Aviation adelmaas@musc.edu http://www.musc.edu/~adelmaas/ ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 09:24:10 -0500 From: Scott Cummings Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-02-2000 Hello Oz friends, I've not posted on the Digest for years, but do skim most issues. Thanks, David, for your efforts with this. I was deeply saddened to read that March Laumer is suffering from skeletal cancer. I corresponded with March frequently when I was younger, and looked forward with great anticipation to receiving his letters and new Oz books. His "adult" Oz novels were a fun way to make the awkward transition from a childhood interest in the Oz books to an adolescent obsession with everything Oz. Although my activities in the world of Oz have shrunken to an occasional book purchase, I still carry fond memories of the world of Oz. March Laumer's Oz books (and his scholarly work on the foreign editions of Oz books) were a most notable part of those memories. Would there be any way to celebrate the works of March at the Oz convention this summer? Best wishes, Scott Cummings ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 15:42:12 -0500 (EST) From: Gehan: Where have you been able to order _Purple Prince_? That's the only Del-Rey I don't have. Nathan: > Howzatagin is "Howrahagin," and Loxo is "Loco." Also, while Haff and > Martin > usually use simple dots for houses and circled dots for towns, the > Dictionary cartographer uses simple dots for both. This must be what Willard Carroll was looking at when Scarecrow implied Ku-Klip was a town in _The Return of Mombi_. Civic's production of the Wizard was excellent as usual. Some of the cast was the same, some different. There were fewer "Ozians" (Ozmies) than last time, and most were older. One of them was played by C. Ryan Metzger, whom I had seen as Berowne in _Love's Labours Lost_ [sic]. Another was Abigail Young, who is a member of Bunk Films, from which I was expelled over IMDb entries. There was an ad for this in the lobby: http://www.adventuresinoz.com/ and a drawing to get a copy, but I didn't enter, because mine would probably be thrown out because of my age. I didn't talk to Sarah Wiley, unlike last time, so I never found out if it was okay to put her picture up on my page, which is why it isn't there. Maybe Nikki can talk to Abigail or something, just in case. If we're not going to have a circa twelve year old as Ozma, my vote would be for Melinda Kinnaman. Scott ====================================== Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! "Militaries are inherently the most corrupt organizations in the world, simply because their mission is to kill people and break things." ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 16:02:07 -0600 Subject: Oz From: "David Godwin" J. L. Bell wrote, concerning _The Number of the Beast_: >I'm not familiar with this title. I presume it's a take on Oz from an >established science-fiction writer, an area of publishing I've never been >able to keep in my head. It's by Robert A. Heinlein, copyright 1980, and the part about Oz is actually very brief: one chapter or less. Nevertheless, Heinlein brought up several controversial/interesting points - that there is no sex, no pregnancy, and no birth in Oz because the population is constant and no one dies - that the sun rises in the west in the Oz world, so they call it "east" - and so on. Also: >Tyler Jones, I just tried visiting your site again, and still got "404" >messages after clicking on the months for digests. Me too, as of 10 p.m. on 1/3/00. Don't know what the problem is; obviously it's hard to detect from your end. I am not panicking, because I had already downloaded everything prior to July '99 and have saved everything since as the list was published, but it is a shame for all that work on your part to sit there unusable. I recognize that there probably isn't all that much you yourself can do to straighten it out, as the problem is most likely with the ISP somehow. LT&B: We are all familiar with the line about "lions and tigers and bears" from the MGM film. Immediately after chanting this refrain, Dot & friends meet the Cowardly Lion. But they never meet any tigers or bears. In the book, after meeting the lion, they do meet tigers and bears in the form of kalidahs, who have the bodies of bears and the heads of tigers. I'm just curious whether the MGM scriptwriters/lyricists got the idea of lions and tigers and bears from the Cowardly Lion plus the kalidahs of the book, or whether this is just a coincidence. Lost King: It's my feeling that RPT did a credible job of trying to fill in the details about "whatever happened to Pastoria," but there are still unanswered questions she did not address (such as how a fairy who has existed from the beginning of the world can have an apparently human father) and she even succeeds in creating more problems (such as where is Morrow and why haven't we heard of it before - does it have that name just for the sake of a pun? - as if she were opening a whole new world and mythos of which we have heretofore heard nothing - and will hereafter hear nothing more). Anyway, it's an improvement over the RPT books that came before. I think in my sequential reading of the works of Ms. Thonpson, it was at about this point that I began to reach the opinion that only Baum's books describe the "real" Oz, and anything that came after that is merely a children's fantasy written by someone who wasn't in the know the way LFB was. - David G. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Jan 00 19:47:57 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things DIGEST ARCHIVE: I've figured out why you all haven't been able to access Tyler's Archive of the Digest -- The URL's are incorrect, though the files themselves are on his site. So what I've done is I've "cloned" Tyler's Archive page, corrected the links, and put it on my own page temporarily until he can incorporate the corrections on his own page. So for now if you want to download back issues of the Digest, go to: http://www.mindspring.com/~daveh47/Ozzy_digest_archive.htm ARROW OF TIME: David H. wrote: >The only date I know of that we have from Oz is the one in _Cowardly Lion_, >where the Travelers' Tree was created by the Wizard Wam in 1120 (or >something like that) O.Z. This would indicate that Oz doesn't use the >Christian calendar, so is probably not celebrating the year 2000 at present. Jellia tells me that the calendar in use in Oz divides the years into BC (= Before Crash, i.e. that killed the WWE) and AD (= After Dorothy). The current Ozzy year (reckoning from the HACC) is AD 102 (AD 104 on Gehan's timeline). In Oz, they didn't have to worry about Y2K, though a couple of years ago all the magical algorithms in Oz had a "Y1H" glitch that Glinda and the Adepts had to overcome... DISENCHANTED!: Gehan wrote: >However, I dont like the way RPT keeps disenchanting everyone. Here's a >list of characters she's disenchanted: >Tattypoo/Queen Orin Of course I agree on this... :) >Sir Hokus/Prince of Corumbia Even *her own* characters aren't safe! -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JANUARY 6, 2000 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-02-2000 Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 04:11:45 GMT David Godwin: >There is no democracy, and there are no >elections before Jenny Jump comes along. Well, it's not really an election, but the Winkies themselves select the Tin Woodman as their new ruler. >They are ruled by a benevolent >despot, and the Emerald City has no trace of a parliament building. Well, most of the main characters advise the Queen, but that's more along the lines of a royal council than a Parliament, I suppose. J. L. Bell: > We could have all sorts of fun with the discrepancy between >chronological and developmental maturity in a land without aging. For >instance, do the parents of an Ozian toddler suffer through sixty years of >the terrible two's before they manage to get their child to grow up? Or >does the choice to stop aging itself require a certain amount of maturity? >When does a person who need never die enter midlife? Well, the idea of how a person stops aging is never really addressed. It might very well require some maturity. I know that Baum stated in _Tin Woodman_ that no one in Oz, even a baby, ever ages, but this might well have been altered to avoid situations like the one you mentioned. Perhaps everyone reaches the "stop-growing age" mentioned by Neill, and then chooses whether or not to age after that. This does seem to be an area that could lead to some interesting writing. Justin Richards: >The Scalet Prince of Oz---I am down to the last three chapters on this. >Jason and Dusty the Golden Retriver (my characters) go to Ev where they >meet >Jinnicky the Red Jinn and they take a ride in his Jinnerinisha which >tunnels >underground to OZ. Dusty and a dalmation have some adventures in Bunbury, >while Dorothy and Kiki Aru are stuck in the Gnome Kingdom with Gloma the >Witch of the Black Forest! >Ozma has gone to Telracs, a kingdom where they are at war with another >kingdom to stop the war. But Prince Derred has his heart set on Princess >Cinnomin (spelled that way on purpose) while they must stop Zog's brother >Zog-A-Nog from destroying Oz and capturing Trot and Cap'n Bill. Coincidentally enough, a brother of Zog was the main villain in an Oz story that I had started writing back in seventh grade. That story was also to contain some adventures in Bunbury. In the part I had written, some ducks living in a swamp to the east of the WWW's castle discovered that the castle was uninhabited, and a duck named Quasto joins up with some other creatures to investigate. Once there, they encounter a sorceror (Zog's brother) who captures most of them, but Quasto, a frog named Kroker, and a fish named Dr. Wisto escape, and make their way to Bunbury, where they are captured. There was also an American boy in the story, who journeyed to Oz in the company of a flying carpet that used to belong to the Red Jinn. I doubt that manuscript will ever be completed, but I might use some of its ideas in a later work. Dave Hardenbrook: > >In _Merry Go Round_, doesn't Ozma remember the Unicorn from her time with > >Lurline's band? > >Hippikaloric, I hope not! Ozma's non-memory of her life in Lurline's >band is a plot device in the third book in my trilogy... > >Might this have been in (non-Canonical and so I don't feel so guilty >about contradicting it) _Mysterious Chronicles of Oz_? I seem to >have a memory...) I'm pretty sure it was in _Merry Go Round_, when Ozma encounters the Unicorn in Pax-on-Argent. Someone who has that book handy can check. Of course, it's possible that Ozma just has vague memories of her time with Lurline's band, not remembering anything in much detail. Along much the same lines, in _Lost King_, she remembers hiding out in Morrow with her father, when she must have been a baby at the time, according to Mombi in _Land_. Recently, I was thinking about the Wizard's name. While it's possible that Baum just came up with random names to fit the desired initials, at least three of the names (Zoroaster, Isaac, and Emmanuel) have religious significance. Since the Wizard was hailed as the savior of Oz at the time of his arrival, there might be something significant in the choice of names, but maybe not. Nathan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 00:30:03 EST Subject: Oz Gehan: Ozma's history is a little muddled. I'll put Thompson's statement about her living for almost a thousand years in th same drawer with her usual window dressing. Since my goal is to create a Unified History of Oz, the current answer that best satisfies the most books is that Ozma is a regular little girl, but that Ozma's mother is at least part-fairy. Rumors, and other fairies named Ozma, help to give her the illusion of eternity. Or possibly she is a fusion, a fairy who has inhabited a mortal girl. Age, experience and wisdom do not always go together, however. The president of the company I work for is younger than several of the people there, but he is the best programmer I have ever seen. David Godwin: Baum's vision of Oz has been discussed at great length. To him, Oz was probably a Utopia, without the need for many of the things which drive a capitalist democracy. People are content. There is no need to do anything else. Ozma does have absolute power, but she never makes mistakes, so her rule is more efficient. It's entirely possible that Oz was Baum's version of heaven. Everything is perfect (or near to), so many of the conventions which defined his reality are simply not necessary. I do not think that Baum is casting Ozma or Lurline as any God or Christ figure, though. John Bell: Thanks for the message of support! :-) You might have gotten to my website after I shut down my computer. It was my sole concession to Y2K. It should work now, though. Try it again and let me know. I want to get these available to people. :-) _Number of the Beast_ is a novella written by Robert A. Heinlein. It supposes that there are a near-infinite number of Univserses, many of which are created by out own thoughts. One of these is Oz. It's based on the books, but is slightly different. Oz is surrounded by the Deadly Desert, but the desert beyond Oz goes on forever. Time seems to have stood still since _The Scarecrow of Oz_. Nathan: Money in Oz has been discussed before. I quote from myself from the Ozzy Digest, March 17 - 23, 1999 > Former Digester Eric Gjovaag wrote an excellent commentary about money in > an issue of the Baum Bugle. Essentially, he said that the value of money > had been depressed after Ozma ascended the throne. According to Eric, > Ozzies for the most part grow or make what they need, and trade for the > rest. Eric downplays the idea in _Emerald City_ that all items of > production are sent to the Emerald City for redistribution. However, money > remains in small amounts to fill in the gaps when things are slightly out > of balance. Trivia: The above quote was in itself a re-wording of another quote by yours truly from May 13, 1996. Prior to this digest, the phrase "fill in the gap" has only appeared four time in the four-year history of the Digest. Twice by myself. :-) ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-04-2000 Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 06:16:57 GMT Lisa: >Being that THE WIZARD OF OZ is OFFICIALLY 100 years old, will there be >anything *NEW* to see this year about OZ at all ? ( movie, book, biography >etc..... ) Well, the Oz Club is planning on publishing _Hidden Prince_, the winner of their manuscript contest. Gehan: >However, I dont like the way RPT keeps disenchanting everyone. Here's a >list of characters she's disenchanted: > >The Scarecrow/Chang Wang Woe(she ALMOST disenchanted him) >Peg Amy >Urtha the Flowery Princess/Princess of Perhaps City >Tora the Tailor/King Pastoria >The forest maiden/Princess from 'The Giant Horse of Oz' >Tattypoo/Queen Orin >Sir Hokus/Prince of Corumbia > >There are many more in other books, which I cant quite place my finger on. >I >personally dont like her iedia of enchanting and DISenchanting people, >because it CAN get quite annoying at times.....especially if the character >was one fo your favourites.....It must be a habit of hers. The whole >Tattypoo/Orin theory doesnt fit in with the Oz Books, and the Sir >Hokus/Prince of Corumbia theory totally contradicts 'The Royal Book of Oz'. >I also dont like the way she makes people forget their past whenever >they're >transformed. The Sir Hokus thing seems to be a change that even Thompson herself later regretted. Note that she makes a brief mention of Sir Hokus (not the Yellow Knight) as being among the Emerald City celebrities trapped by Badmannah. Of course, Neill also uses the old Sir Hokus in his books. As for Tattypoo/Orin, while I know that some Digesters are bothered by this change, I don't know that it "doesn't fit in with the Oz Books." Really, Baum effectively discarded the character after his first few books, so I suppose we can't fault Thompson too heavily for changing her. Of course, Dave Hardenbrook's main objection is that Thompson seemed to have a problem with there being any main characters in Oz that weren't young, beautiful princes or princesses. The restoration of Urtha bothered me somewhat; I can't exactly see why she would have wanted to give up her flower fairy form, which had some distinct advantages (unless it was done so she could bear children, but I doubt Thompson had that in mind). Thompson DIDN'T change the Scarecrow's form, and I don't really think that the criticism of Tora being disenchanted is entirely valid, since the whole point of Tora was to be the enchanted form of Pastoria (even the name reflects this, as Dorothy points out within the text). Transformation does seem to be a bit of an over-used plot device within Thompson's books, though, and they're often treated in much the same way. >1908 - Grampa in Oz, The Lost King of Oz & The Hungry Tiger of Oz I don't really think this works for _Lost King_. There wasn't a fully-formed movie industry in Hollywood back in 1908, was there? >I also think that although the wicked witches conquered the four countries >BEFORE the Wizard came to Oz, Mombi didnt turn King Pastoria into a tailor >untill AFTER the Wizard came to Oz, though she may have turned Pajuka into >a >goose before. In _Lost King_, Pajuka states that, after she transformed him, she sent him away and enchanted the King. My guess is that she did both transformations in close succession. Ruth Berman: >(Nathan suggested >that Tora's tailor shop itself contradicts the generalization, but I don't >think it can be really considered a "store." He's selling a service rather >than a stock of "diversified goods for retail sale.") That's true. Are there any shops that would definitely be considered stores within the Oz series? The goods shop in _Jack Pumpkinhead_ strikes me as a possible example, but that didn't appear until after _Lost King_. Dave Hardenbrook: >Jellia tells me that the calendar in use in Oz divides the years into >BC (= Before Crash, i.e. that killed the WWE) and AD (= After Dorothy). In _Disenchanted Princess_, Melody Grandy occasionally refers to "the such-and-such year of Ozma's reign," which might be a reasonable calendar for Oz. Nathan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== From: Ozisus@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 01:32:22 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-04-2000 Just a quick notes to assure anyone interested that the IWOC 2000 calendars are in and orders are being filled. In honor of the centennial, we packed this one with historical facts, and a fun cartoon illustrates some event from the associated month. "We" is quite proverbial, by the way. Lee Jenkins did every lick of the work and gets all the resulting applause and roses thrown at her feet. Anyone who hasn't yet gotten Cooking In Oz has no idea what they are missing. An utterly marvelous and engaging book. I wrote a review on Amazon.com if you want detail. It can be purchase from the co-author's web site, too. (Elaine Willingham) at http://www.beyondtherainbow2oz.com/ Anyone interested in making a $500 contribution to the centennial in the interest of physical fitness? Adventures in Oz is headquartered in Indianapolis just a stone's throw from Bloomington. If we could cover that amount in an honorarium, Cheryl could have us all Ozercising at centennial. Jane ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 22:54:09 -0800 From: Douglas Silfen Subject: For Ozzy Digest Subject: For Ozzy Digest Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 17:36:20 -0800 From: Douglas Silfen To: DaveH47@mindspring.com CC: duglor I haven't written in over a year and a half to the digest- i will start up again..so here is the survey..filled out... >Fill in this survey to get to know each other's opinions better. Name : Douglas Silfen Sex : Male, Married, Age 35 >How did you ever get to know about Oz? Well it was the movie of course. I saw it as a child and watched it every year on tv. I did not read ANY Oz book until i was 28!! How's that eh? >Fav. Oz Character and why? - I'm been thinking on this one and thought "which character do i need to have in every Oz book?" My answer then becomes Dorothy..a character who reflects the window into Oz for someone out here in the real world. For a real Oz character from OZ..that would be The Tin Woodsman..because well..he's drawn nicely by most folks! Seriously, I think it is his because of his innocense and idealism and benevolent rule. >Least Fav. Oz Character and why? Jack Pumpkinhead has always come accross as being too goofy and stupid. >Fav. Oz Book/s - The Wizard of Oz, Ozma of Oz, Tik-Tok, The Magic of Oz.. I just read Paradox in Oz..and i really enjoyed it..waaay up there. Least Fav. Oz Book/s - Scalagawagons, Road to Oz, Royal Book of Oz >The MGM Movie or Return to Oz - The MGM Movie >The MGM Movie or the Oz Books? - The Oz Books are much more wonderous >Fav. Oz Author and why? - L Frank Baum >Least Fav. Oz Author and why? - John Neill..too odd and unsettling to read >Fav Illustrator Eric Shanower....Brilliant ..simply brilliant >Least Fav. Oz Illustrator - Some of the vanity press illustrators >Are the Oz Books your favourite Book Series? Hmm. No..I like the Lord of the Rings, if you consider that a series and the 3 books by Asimov- Caves of Steel, Naked Sun, and Robots of Dawn (known as the Robot novels)..then the Oz series!! >Is the MGM Movie your favourite movie ? No -- I like 5 better...Jaws..The Great Escape..Harakiri, Casablanca, and Gunga Din. >Have you written any Oz Books? If so, what are they? If not, do you intend >to write any? - No..I began one that my wife thought was wonderful..then my mind just went blank..i hope to finish one day.......... > >Are you a member of the Interntional Wizard of Oz Club? No. >Are you a member of the Royal Club of Oz? Nope. My interest in Oz goes from all out fan..to 2 year of hiatus to all out fan again. That's how most of my interests go. It is hard to join a club when you want to be the president one year and go missing for the next two :) >If you could change just ONE thing in the FF Books, what would it be? That at the end of THE SCARECROW OF OZ....the Tin woodman gives our hero perhaps a porcelin butterfly wing or something like that (a fake wing) so that the entire quest is not for naught. That would satisfy the quest in that book for me. Oh, and perhaps more about the Wicked Witches of the East and West and less about Mombi. >Fav. Oz Actor Bert Lahr >Fav. Oz Actress Margaret Hamilton Doug Silfen ====================================================================== From: "Bob Collinge" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-04-2000 Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 05:13:21 -0500 charset="iso-8859-1" David Huluan: >Bob C.: >Fav. Oz Book/s - The Road to Oz, because we meet Polychrome, Patchwork Girl, >Glass Cat, Umm...Polychrome, yes, but we meet Scraps and the Glass Cat later in _Patchwork Girl_. In _Road_ the other continuing characters we meet are the Shaggy Man and Button-Bright.< I didn't mean that we meet Patchwork Girl and Glass Cat in "Road", but that these were also two of my favorite Oz books. I should have been more specific. Bob C. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 07:22:14 -0500 From: "Lisa M. Mastroberte" Subject: Ozzy Replies (Yay!) David Hulan: >Could you elaborate on that a bit? Cap'n Bill is one of my favorite >characters, and I'm not sure what you mean by "crossovers." Do you mean >_Sea Fairies_ and _Sky Island_? I'll agree that the former is fairly weak >(though better than _DotWiz_ or _Road_ or _L&A of Santa Claus_), but the >latter is probably my favorite Baum of all. Yes ... the crossovers from Sea Fairies and Sky Island. Trot at the time was basically a replacement for Dorothy, but as the books wore on she took on a personality of her own. Sea Fairies, however, was a really excellent book which I enjoyed a lot, I just don't like the fact that they come to Oz. Keep all the characters in their own land. :) Another thing, I loved _Santa Claus_ to bits. >If you could change just ONE thing in the FF Books, what would it be? - That >Glinda and her book of records should have known that the wizard was a >humbug from the start. He should have never been able to take over Oz. But >without him we don't have a story do we? But ... the man behind the curtain is all the fun! Besides, the Great Book of Records wasn't added until *after* _Wizard_. >I suspect that the answer for both the pro- and anti-Digest forces has less >to do with anything you're doing or not doing than with the people who >choose to be active on the Digest. Those who enjoy the kind of meticulous >exegesis of things Ozzy that we do here are going to like the Digest a lot; >those who find it boring (or who disagree strongly enough with some of the >opinions expressed that they find them offensive) aren't going to like it >much. All people can have their own opinions ... and if they don't like something, hey, they should be free to leave! However, I don't believe there was any sign of discomfort by any of these basher-members when they *were on the list*, they start to complain once they get off on various message boards, mailing lists, et cetera. (For example, I used to be on the Tiktok Talk mailing list and Chris claimed that digesters chased him off and we were not a friendly bunch) Lisa Marie: Wee, another Lisa on this list! :) >Being that THE WIZARD OF OZ is OFFICIALLY 100 years old, will there be >anything *NEW* to see this year about OZ at all ? ( movie, book, biography >etc..... ) Actually, in the movie slot, there's a movie being made for the Disney Channel called "Lion of Oz and the Badge of Courage", which is based on Roger S. Baum's book of the same name. It's not very consistent with the rest of the Oz books, but let's see how this movie turns out. Gehan: >Here's >a >list of characters she's disenchanted: >>The Scarecrow/Chang Wang Woe(she ALMOST disenchanted him) >Peg Amy Hey now ... that disenchantment was perfect for _Kabumpo_ and I like Peg Amy. :) >True there ARE >many things to do IN the Emerakd City, but surely Ozma and Dorothy would >have decided to take Betsy around the Land of Oz for her to see what it >looks like? Oz is a big place. There's plenty to do. Well, I need to head off. Good day, all! ~Lisa -- "Every man is the painter and sculptor of his own life." - S. John Chrysostom (+407) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 18:45:32 +1100 From: Gehan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-04-2000 Justin: Hmm....I know Dorothy didnt seem to be happy untill the END of RTOZ, while Dorothy was happy nearly RIGHT throughout the MGM Movie. Anyway, Dorothy is younger in RTOZ, and she must have been terrified to find all her Oz friends, the Emerald City and all the people enchanted, the Yellow Brick Road all broken up, and Munchkinland turned into a dark forest. And she had to go through the Mombi's screaming heads scene, and then she had to risk herself as well as all her friends being turned into ornaments in the Gnome King's underground caverns. I know Dorothy was anxious to get home, and she was afarid of the Wicked Witch of the West in the MGM Movie, but she was older and her problems were NOTHING compared to Dorothy's in RTOZ. David(Hulan): >What is solved in RTO through a knock of the heels? Well, Dorothy clicked the magic heels of the Ruby Slippers and wished that the entire Emerald City and its inhabitants will be restored. She also took away Mombi's magic powers by means of her Ruby Slippers. I think THATS what Bob meant. But then again, there was no OTHER way for her to do it, since the Emerald City and all the people were ENCHANTED by means of the Ruby Slippers, and I thought it was BRILLIANT, the way she trerived them from the Nome King, and used their powers wisely and well. Lisa Marie: >Being that THE WIZARD OF OZ is OFFICIALLY 100 years old, will there be >anything *NEW* to see this year about OZ at all ? ( movie, book, biography >etc..... ) Well, Tim Burton's 'LOst in Oz' series, which is based on the FF(mostly Baum's books) is coming up this fall. And I'm sure there are SEVERAL Oz Books to be published....I think Dave's 'The Unknown Witch of Oz' will also be released this year..... Ruth Berman and Enid Blyton: Well, your right. RPT DOES adapt Lewis Carrol's iedias in several of her books. I've also noticed her style of writing, and her way of using puns is more of a 'British' style.....much like Lewis Carrol and Enid Blyton(who would have made a SPLENDID Oz Historian, as she is the world's BEST children's author. If she wrote any Oz Books, the Books will be famous RIGHT THROUGHOUT the world, I'm sure.....She's very popular in SriLanka and many Asian/Diverse countries.....Her stories have also been translated into many diverse languages, so I'm sure she would have been a SPLENDID Oz Author, as she has a VERY VERY vivid imagination, as clearly seen in her fairy stories. Sccot Andrew: >Gehan: Where have you been able to order _Purple Prince_? That's the >only Del-Rey I don't have. A person called Dave M. was selling a Del Rey copy of 'Purple Prince' and a Del Rey copy of 'Pirates'.....I wonder where he obtained them from. David (Godwin): >We are all familiar with the line about "lions and tigers and bears" from >the MGM film. Immediately after chanting this refrain, Dot & friends meet >the Cowardly Lion. But they never meet any tigers or bears. I dont think the scriptwriters necessarily WANTED Dot and her friends to come across tigers and bears. But, it'd also eb wiered to have a jungle where ONLY lions live, so they probably added tigers and bears, since Tinman says there are MOSTLY lions, tigers and bears. Maybe the tigers and bears were afraid of the lion's roar, or didnt dare to attack Dot and her friends since they saw Dot's Ruby Slippers, or because they considered EVERY lion a 'King of the Forest'.............. >I think in my >sequential reading of the works of Ms. Thonpson, it was at about this point >that I began to reach the opinion that only Baum's books describe the "real" >Oz, and anything that came after that is merely a children's fantasy written >by someone who wasn't in the know the way LFB was. I USED to only accept Baum's books as official, but now I accept his books, RPT's books as well as Rachel Cosgrove Paye's books..... ~Gehan~ ================================================= Whenever I feel afraid I hold my head erect and whistle a happy tune so no one will suspect, I'm afraid While shivering in my shoes I strike a careless pause and whistle a happy tune so no one ever knows, I'm afraid The result of this deception is very strange to tell for when I fool the people I fear I fool myself as well I whistle a happy tune and every single time the happiness in the tune convinces me that I'm, not afraid! Make believe your brave and the trick will take you far You may be as brave as you make believe you are You may be as brave as you make believe you are -- I Whistle a Happy Tune (The King and I) ====================================================================== From: "Kenneth R. Shepherd" Subject: ozzy things Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 09:20:08 -0500 The chronology for the BCF: ******WARNING: POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOR "LOST KING" AHEAD******** Day 1 - Pajuka & Mombi meet again in afternoon - Snip kidnaped - night in forest - General Whiffenpuff leaves for Emerald City at night Day 2 - Snip & party encounter weenix around noon, meet Hoopers, cross sea - Catty Corners - they travel at night until Mombi throws Snip down well Day 3 - Snip arrives in Blankenburg - he is awakened by Blanks about 9 AM - he meets Tora and the golden feather flies off - Dorothy leaves Perhaps City ("On the same bright morning that the golden goose feather had come flashing down into Ozma's garden") - she visits America, brings Humpy to life, returns, meets Kabumpo - Ozma left a message by Pajuka's feather at breakfast - she & court wished to Morrow - Dorothy's & Snip's parties meet around noon - rendezvous (with Mombi & Pajuka) at Palace in afternoon - Ozma & Co. arrive in EC two hours after Kabumpo's party - Pastoria disenchanted - abdication Day 4 - Parade in honor of the King of Oz - Mombi extinguished - Snip leaves for Kimbaloo with General Whiffenpuff, Invisible Cook & Kabumpo after lunch Note: According to the text, Pajuka's penfeather does not actually leave Snip's grasp until the same morning that Snip arrives in Blankenburg. Since the text states that "it was morning and nearly nine o'clock" before Snip woke up in Blankenburg and lost the feather, we must assume that Ozma breakfasted rather late that day. ****************END SPOILERS***************** ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 14:38:50 -0500 (EST) From: cc: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-04-2000 > Scott H.: > > > The MGM movie is a more successful effort at movie-making, but RTO is more > > > in keeping with the spirit of the books, and I enjoyed it more. > >I'm not even sure I agree with this statement. I think RTO does have a > >huge weakness in that everything is solved through a knock of the > >heels--the shoes are too powerful to be interesting or dramatic. > > What is solved in RTO through a knock of the heels? Or did you mean in the > MGM movie? If the latter, then the "it was all a dream" ending means that > you can't apply normal dramatic criteria to the ending of the dream. It's true for both of them, but dorothy's "I wish all of us from Oz to return there safely, and for the Emerald City and all the people in it to be restored to life" kind of finishes things in one anticlimactic fell swoop. Gehan: > You may wonder how Ozma says she was with Lurline's fairy band a thousand > years ago, if she was born in 188?. Simple! Lurline could have de-aged Ozma > back to a little baby and injected her into King Pastoria's wife's womb, as > most Oz fans believe. I think your last phrase is an overstatement. It was Melody Grandy's idea and there may be many who agree with her, but (particularly if we count all those NOT on the digest), "most" is probably wrong. > The book also draws on Baum's stageplay of "The Wizard," in naming > the King Pastoria, and does an interesting job of extrapolating from > Baum's very brief mentions of how the witches did away with Ozma's > father to come up with the title character. Pastoria was, of course, mentioned in Land. Scarecrow: "But isn't Pastoria dead and gone?" Glinda: "That is the popular belief." I think RPT was going on this. > were assuming (without wanting to specify) that carnivores in a > country like Oz must be morally able to eat intelligent prey (although > for omnivores the case would be less compelling). In Lewis's Narnia > books, there is a sharp difference between Talking Beasts and > ordinary speechless, unintelligent beasts, but the Oz authors probably > weren't thinking along that line. I thought there was an implication that they got meat that grows on trees, like the lunch pail trees, only different. Or perhaps that's unique to Ooogaboo. Scott ====================================================================== From: JPENN319@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 18:30:09 EST Subject: Oz and Dark Side of the Moon Can you tell me where I can find information about playing the movie and Pink Floyd's Dark side of the moon CD at the same time??? I've heard that if you start them at certain times it appears to coincide with the movie. I'm interested in trying this, but don't know enough detail's to attempt it. John ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 18:47:56 -0500 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: our goose is cooked charset=ISO-8859-1 David Godwin wrote: <> Your analysis is conflating two aspects of the classic American system that, despite what our national ideology says, can be separated. One is capitalist entrepreneurship, and the other democratic government. But your question of why Baum's documented activities in both fields aren't reflected more in his most famous children's books is a very interesting one. Baum did indeed run several businesses, starting with the chickens he raised as a teenager. But he also experienced several business failures, including one shortly before he wrote ROAD and EMERALD CITY, the books that give us the most detail about Oz's economy and the worst picture of America's. His father had also lost his oil company and his fortune. So I don't think Baum felt whole-hearted enthusiasm about the American way of business. Indeed, when I look at the one enterprise that Baum repeatedly returned to over life--theater (and its offshoot, movies)--it strikes me that he was NOT primarily motivated by money. At least, if money's what you want, that field's a lousy one to go plowing in. As I recall, he saw one early production's sets and costumes burn up in a fire, another company have its funds stolen, and one of his Oz musicals fail. Did that enlighten/discourage him? Did that make him more careful about his investments? No, he later assembled the elaborate combination of movies, lecture, and live drama called Radio Plays; that production got good reviews but sent him into bankruptcy because it was so expensive to mount and tour. Baum's love of theater also affected his other, less risky business activities. As we know, he wrote many books with an eye toward theatrical adaptation, or took dramas as his inspiration. Even his chief area of commercial expertise, shop-window display, is simply the most theatrical aspect of retailing. Thus, while I think Baum's showed "hard work, imagination, and [faith in, if not success at] being in the right place at the right time," he didn't necessarily direct those qualities toward making money. He had another yardstick for success: audience acclaim. He made money in order to tell stories, not the other way around. Baum's books are full of heroes who are also plucky, persevering, and resourceful: Dorothy, the Wizard, Trot and Cap'n Bill, and so on. They have all the qualities of Horatio Alger heroes, but different goals. They don't care about finding a place in the professional world. They want to get home, or survive an adventure, or restore a family. And who's to say those aren't more important goals--especially for young readers? Baum's political picture of Oz is as far from standard American ideals as his economic picture, despite his and his relatives' participation in the democratic process. He poked a lot of fun at the institution of monarchy, and plays with lots of different ways of choosing a ruler, but (unlike Neill's ghost-writing editor) he didn't depict elections, legislatures, or other elements of republican government. I think Baum made Oz and his other fairylands into benevolent monarchies because he was writing for kids. The social structure kids are most familiar and comfortable with is the family. And the American middle-class family in Baum's time WAS a Marxist monarchy. The parents (usually the father) owned everything but distributed it free for everyone's benefit. The parents made the decisions, but again for everyone's benefit. When Baum wrote for older audiences, he exhibited different attitudes toward politics and business. His pseudonymous TAMAWACA FOLKS for adults revolves around small-town corruption and, I believe, electioneering. His equally pseudonymous BOY FORTUNE HUNTERS series for teenage boys, readers about to enter the business world, is fueled by the heroes' unquenchable lust for wealth. Gehan Cooray wrote: <> I hate to admit this to someone younger than myself, but being older doesn't necessarily mean being wiser. In Ozma's case, she seems to have been (a) turned into a baby with a baby's lack of memory and/or (b) turned into a boy with no memory of her [his?] previous life. And all that time Glinda was storing up knowledge. Thus, when we meet them, Glinda has accumulated much more experience than Ozma has. But Ozma may have forgotten more than Glinda ever knew! Gehan Cooray wrote: <> There are indeed. Note that in each of these cases the person is disenchanted into royalty, and in many an old or unusual person is changed into a young and traditionally beautiful one. If Thompson had kept writing, I half suspect, there would be far fewer ordinary-looking middle-aged commoners left in Oz, and lots more princes and princesses. Gehan Cooray dated: <<1909 - The Gnome King of Oz>> Doesn't Peter think of Charles Lindbergh (who became famous in 1927) in this book? Or perhaps that's just Thompson's own reference. Gehan Cooray wrote: <> I'm a bit confused by the terminology here. Are you saying that Dorothy was born three years before Betsy, but that by coming to Oz and not growing she let Betsy grow older? (If so, I might reverse the terms, and use "biologically" to refer to how much someone's body has aged and "chronologically" to how many calendar years have passed since her birth.) David Godwin wrote: <> Interesting thought. Obviously, the lyricists were looking for words to chant ("Ocelots, asps, and wild boar, oh my!" doesn't run off the tongue), but a quick flip through the book might have inspired them. The travelers also meet a bear and a tiger in chapter 23 of WIZARD, at least according to the art and text together. David Hulan asked: <> An offhand claim on TikTokTalk by a certain ardent desktop publisher of Oz books. It's all blown over, but the comment was enough to intrigue David Godwin about the dark and turbulent (and mythical) history of this list. Nathan DeHoff wrote: <> I think the best explanation for the Wizard's lack of foresight in LOST KING is not that's he feel "jealous" [as Thompson states on 111], but that he feels *guilty* about his role in interrupting the Pastorian dynasty. He "did not like to recall the part he had played in the affair at all" [120]. "He always felt uneasy and unhappy when the old witch [Mombi] was mentioned" [119], and indeed he starts acting "nervously" [113] and "uneasily" [114] shortly after the Scarecrow mentions Morrow, a kingdom the Wizard "remembered...perfectly" [111]. He desperately wants to atone for his earlier wrong by finding Pastoria, so much so that he stops thinking as well as he usually does. The Wizard indeed shows a jealous streak later when he's working alongside Jinnicky and Waddy. It seems significant that he's working *alongside* them; the stakes in the rivalry are simply bragging rights because they're not trying to defeat each other. In Baum's books, as in Neill's and others, the Wizard's pride in his magic and pleasure in his audiences are clear. But why don't we see that competitiveness in Baum's stories? Perhaps because the Wizard never meets a *male* magic-worker who's a friendly rival. Dr. Pipt is quickly rendered powerless, and Ugu, Kiki Aru, and various Imps and Nomes are enemies. The Wizard seems to accept being second to Glinda and (in a different way) Ozma, but he may well feel competitive toward another man. It's a boy thing. You make a very good point about Thompson not using Shaggy and Cap'n Bill. Another mature male she almost never takes on an adventure is the Tin Woodman (he has a role in OZOPLANING because of tradition and marketing, and injects the only clear dose of Oz into ENCHANTED ISLAND). Baum got some good laughs out of all those men and their quirks, but their personalities didn't lend themselves to Thompson's more knockabout form of comedy, in which most men are just bearded kids. On the question of money in LOST KING, Thompson seems ambivalent about the issue. She makes clear references to money and shops, but she also keeps trying to present the economy as quaintly non-commercial. Kinda Jolly "had made a great fortune in buttons" [13], and Rosa Merry "almost as much of a fortune in bouquets" [14--a lady mustn't earn more than her husband!]. These fortunes are amassed in "coins" [17]. Yet, as Nathan DeHoff noted, in this same section Thompson also declares, "There are no stores in Oz" [16]. The king's purchase of his dinner similarly points in all directions. Kinda Jolly "had been to market" [37--see also Mombi's "market woman" comment on 59], but Pajuka "had come straight from a neighboring farm" [21]. The king doesn't seem to buy the goose with his coins because he reports, "Cost me a thousand gold buttons" [38]. The economic picture seems clearer when the scene shifts to the Emerald City. (Blankenburg clearly isn't a free market.) Pastoria declares he'll open "the finest tailoring shop in Oz," and for several chapters he's been planning suits for Snip, Dorothy, and his other friends. "I'll make you *all* suits," he promises his new friends [273]. And all this is gratis, as life in the capital of Oz usually is. Nathan DeHoff wrote: <> Snip also "had a feeling that there was something human about" this goose [21]. That seems to be Thompson's way of reassuring us that formerly human geese are different from natural, edible geese. Which is not to say I feel very reassured. Gehan Cooray wrote: <> ****SPOILER**** The two men are disenchanted simultaneously when Snip throws the robe around Tora and says, "I command you to resume your natural shape!" [267] To me that implies their transformations were part of the same spell, and thus happened together. Pajuka has testified, "we were in a small greenwood...when you changed me to a goose. But as you drove me a way immediately, I never knew what became of the King." That might imply separate spells except that Mombi immediately concluded, "Then it was green magic!" [51] That indicates certainty that she'd transformed Pastoria on the same occasion when she'd enchanted Pajuka. Otherwise, she wouldn't have been so sure it was in the same place. Gehan Cooray wrote: <> There's no evidence that "most Oz fans" believe this, or even believe Pastoria had a wife. She's certainly never mentioned in LOST KING. You don't accept Snow's story of Ozma's adoption in MAGICAL MIMICS, as I recall, but that's still a common canonical starting-point for the question of Ozma's parentage. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 20:13:39 -0500 From: "John W. Kennedy" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-04-2000 David Hulan wrote: > Well, no. But then stage musicals don't have great music either, at least > IMHO. Not if you're going by the standard of Mozart or Puccini or Verdi or > Wagner. I consider the songs from "Shall We Dance" as good as any the > Gershwins did anywhere else; ditto for "Follow the Fleet" and Berlin. Well, that's it. I'd put Kern and Rogers at a generally higher level, musically, than Berlin or anything Gershwin wrote for the stage outside of "Porgy & Bess". And, of course, it partly depends on where you draw the line; I've already mentioned "Bitter Sweet" and "The Duchess of Chicago". -- -John W. Kennedy -rri0189@ibm.net Life is very rough-and-tumble for a humble diseuse; One can betray ones troubles never whatever occurs. Night after night, have to look bright whether you're well or ill; people must laugh their fill. You mustn't sleep till dawn comes creeping. Though I never really grumble, life's a jumble indeed; and in my efforts to succeed, I've had to formulate a creed. I believe in doing what I can, in crying when I must, in laughing when I choose. Heigh-ho! If love were all, I should be lonely. I believe the more you love a man, the more you give your trust, the more you're bound to lose, although, when shadows fall, I think if only somebody splendid really needed me, someone affectionate and dear, cares would be ended if I knew that he wanted to have me near. But I believe that since my life began, the most I've had is just a talent to amuse. Heigh-ho! If love were all.... Though life buffets me obscenely, it serenely goes on. Although I question its conclusion, illusion is gone. Frequently I put a bit by, safe for a rainy day; nobody here can say to what, indeed, the years are leading. Fate may often treat me meanly, but I keenly pursue a little mirage in the blue; determination helps me through. I believe in doing what I can, in crying when I must, in laughing when I choose. Heigh-ho! If love were all, I should be lonely. I believe the more you love a man, the more you give your trust, the more you're bound to lose, although, when shadows fall, I think if only somebody splendid really needed me, someone affectionate and dear, cares would be ended if I knew that he wanted to have me near. But I believe that since my life began, the most I've had is just a talent to amuse. Heigh-ho! If love were all.... -- If Love Were All (Bitter Sweet) ====================================================================== From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 21:35:28 EST Subject: Oz Gehan: People forgetting their past when transformed might be part of the enchantment. This would help assure the spellcaster that the transformation would be permanent. The victim would never know to get "un-enchanted" and friends and family would look in vain for the victim. Ozzy Digest Archive: I finally found the problem today (01-05-00). The name of my virtual directory was incorrect. Unfortunately, our ISP is down, so even though the link is finally fixed, nobody can get it. Try it anyway, though. It may be fixed by now. Thanks, Dave, for discovering this also. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 22:10:34 -0600 Subject: Oz & LFB From: "David Godwin" Ruth Berman wrote: >David Godwin: Interesting set of questions on Baum's politics. A part >of the answer is probably that it's an exaggeration to describe him as >"aggressively" looking for chances to find something that "would finally >pay off big time." Yes, I'll admit that I frequently exaggerate to make a point. It's a fault I should probably strive to overcome. But the preface of _Our Landlady_ does speak of Baum's "western boosterism" and the introduction quotes him as saying that, in the Dakota territory, "opportunities are constantly arising where an intelligent man may profit." His behavior in Aberdeen, as for example his attempts to open a bazaar and start clubs that would need the goods to be sold there - "genuine Yankee enterprise in advertising," he called it - are indicative of the entrepreneurial spirit and seem dissonant with the way of life in Oz. Whether he retained these attitudes in Chicago and California, or while he was writing the Oz books, I do not know, and that was part of the question. John W. Kennedy wrote: >Political thought cannot be mapped by marking two points, >one marked "Democrat" and one "Republican", and then drawing the line >determined by those two points....It is always a grave mistake to assume that political polarities of >another place or time are similar to the polarities of ones own, and the >19th century spent a good deal more time that we realize regretting >itself. I mentioned that Baum was a Republican as a factor to consider, not, as you appear to think, to form the foundation of my whole interpretation of his outlook. His party affiliation was incidental to all the other points I made. Forget that I used the word "Republican." Let's consider that part of my question irrelevant. Nevertheless, is it not realistic to assume that, Republican or Democrat or something else, Baum did not believe that the United States should be ruled by a king, even though Oz is ruled by a princess? Can we not assume on the basis of his actions in Aberdeen and elsewhere that Baum believed in the virtues of the free enterprise system as opposed to the socialism of Oz with its public storehouses, with each giving and taking according to his ability and need? It's not like the socialism/capitalism dichotomy was unheard of. The first volume of _Das Kapital_ appeared in 1867. The Socialist Party existed in the United States in the late 19th century and Baum could presumably have joined it if his sympathies had been in that direction. I'm not so sure that the polarities in question here are really all that particular to any time or place, or that I am imposing year 2000 modes of thought on the people of 100 years ago. Nevertheless, you're right that modern party stereotypes do not necessarily apply beyond the present day. Apparently, I should not have mentioned that Baum was a Republican, because it seems to have drawn attention away from what I was trying to say. >Just because we are told today that >freedom = capitalism = material prosperity does not make it so; they are >not inseparably linked even as philosophies, let alone as fact. The point is not the factuality of this belief but whether Baum believed it. On the basis of his actions and statements, I think he did (at least if you substitute the term "free enterprise" for "capitalism"). However, the contrary point of view seems to be expressed in the Oz books. Also, I'm curious as to what you mean when you say that "the 19th century spent a good deal more time that we realize regretting itself." I have no reason to dispute this statement, but I'd be interested to hear a few examples. I haven't encountered this phenomenon myself in any of the literature of the period, not that I'm well read in that area. Now, since my poor presentation and statement of the question have resulted in its being essentially discounted, I will restate it in less dramatic terms: Is there not a contradiction between Baum's beliefs and life style on the one hand and his utopian vision of Oz on the other? How about his evidently enthusiastic participation in the entrepreneurial system vs. the no-money, free-food system of Oz? Does the assertion that Oz is an American fairyland clash with the fact that Oz is ruled by an absolute monarch? Is there a contradiction here or not? Inasmuch as no one volunteered an answer to this question, but merely challenged the question itself, I will go ahead and answer it myself, at least tentatively: Yes, there is a contradiction and Baum was fully aware of it. However, he was also aware of the fact that there is a difference between fantasy and reality. His idealized visions of Oz include rule by a monarch and free necessities in exchange for little effort, but also immortality and the absence of disease. One is as realistic as the other. Absolutely authoritarian rule could never work in the "real" world because of the imperfections of human beings, but it can work in Oz because Ozma is a fairy whose goodness, kindness, and love for her people are beyond question. It's possible to avoid working really hard in Oz because meals grow on trees, already prepared, as do most of the things one might need. If it doesn't grow on trees, you can go to the public storehouse and get it. The outside world is lacking in such trees, and the storehouse idea cannot work because, unlike the citizens of Oz, people in our world would be apt to take more than they needed, probably even for the purpose of resale after they had secured a monopoly on certain items. In short, economic and political systems that are doomed to imperfection and failure in the outside world can work well in Oz because of the nature of the place and its people. More Ozzy contradictions: Most of us on this list are continually challenged by the apparent contradictions within Baum's Oz books (let alone the rest of the FF). Some regard this as an interesting exercise; I suspect that many others find it frustrating and provoking. But it doesn't seem to have bothered Baum very much. If you think the books are bad, consider the musical play and the motion pictures. In the play, Toto becomes a cow named Imogene, and the poppies are killed by a snowstorm conjured by the GWN (foreshadowing the MGM film). In _His Majesty the Scarecrow of Oz_, the film begins telling the story of _The Scarecrow of Oz_, but without mentioning Jinxland. Krewel is evidently king of Oz. The witch employed by the king to turn his daughter's heart to ice has a slave, namely "little Dorothy from Kansas." Pon and Dorothy run away. In their travels, the two of them rescue the Scarecrow from the beanpole (which Dorothy managed alone in WWiz). In this film, by the way, there is nothing about the Silver Islanders. The Scarecrow is clearly shown being brought to life as the result of an enchantment by fairies. Then the group discovers the Tin Woodman rusted into position in front of his tin castle. The Wizard comes along in a wagon drawn by the Sawhorse and imprisons the witch in a can. All comes right in the end when everything is restored, Gloria is allowed to marry Pon, and the Scarecrow is crowned king of Oz. So there is not a whole lot of consistency with the books. I suppose we should remember this when and if we start criticizing modern-day retellings of the Oz stories. - David G. (the G stands for "Grave Error") ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:37:50 -0600 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-02 & 04-2000 01-02: Gehan: >No, what I meant was that if Ozma has existed since the beginning of time, >Glinda must have existed even before Ozma, because Glinda is wiser and has >more experiance. Again, I don't think that conclusion follows from the evidence. Five hundred years of ruling the Quadling Country and being adviser to the kings of Oz would almost certainly result in more wisdom and experience relevant to ruling than five thousand years of dancing in circles in a forest, which might be all Ozma had done. And this is assuming that Ozma remembers her life as a member of Lurline's band, which seems improbable (despite her remarks about the unicorn in _Merry-Go-Round_) based on the fact that she never refers to anything she learned then in the first 39 books. > Jean Marsh >doesnt even LOOK like Coo-ee-oh, since Baum stated that Coo-ee-oh appears to >be a young girl who's about 16-17 years of age.....and her personality is >TOTALLY different..... Doesn't look like, but to me her personality (as Princess Mombi) is more like Coo-ee-oh's than any of the other Oz villains. Kind of a nasty totalitarian ruler. Is there any way, by the bye, that you could suppress that long signature in second or subsequent postings to the Digest? David G.: As I think somebody remarked in the 01-04 Digest, the Republicans in the 1880s and 1890s were very different from the Republicans of today. They were still the party of Lincoln, not the party of Nixon. It's true that th